From owner-public@setileague.org Wed Sep 1 18:20:59 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i821KwUL024979 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id VAA25627 for public-list; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:00:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav20.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.124]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25623; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:00:08 -0700 Received: from 63.159.20.165 by bay4-dav20.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 01:00:08 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.20.165] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: Fw: [vsnet-alert 8292] TrES-1 exoplanet transit observation started at CBA Belgium Observatory - ingress successfuly measured Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:58:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C49066.73440CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:58:36 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 01:00:08.0680 (UTC) FILETIME=[31179E80:01C49088] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C49066.73440CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tonny Vanmunster=20 To: cba-news=20 Cc: Aavso-Photometry ; = vsnet-alert ; = vsnet-obs=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:16 PM Subject: [vsnet-alert 8292] TrES-1 exoplanet transit observation started = at CBA Belgium Observatory - ingress successfuly measured Dear colleagues, I have started a time-series photometry session on a transit of = exoplanet TrES-1 earlier tonight (2004 Sep 1, at 19h34m UT), under very good sky conditions. TrES-1 is a very recently discovered exoplanet (see http://skyandtelescope.com/news/article_1330_1.asp and http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0408/0408421.pdf for more details), that has not yet been observed by amateurs before. I'm using a 0.35-m f/6.3 telescope with an unfiltered ST-7XME CCD = camera, at CBA Belgium Observatory. An intermediate light curve analysis of the acquired data (up till 22h10m UT) very well shows the ingress, which = seems to have started very close to the predicted time of 21h13m UT. A fading = by approx. 0.02 mag is clearly visible in the "raw" light curve (that is, = even without stacking and/or averaging images). I will continue to measure the transit all night long - given the very = good weather conditions, and spend time tomorrow in the final analysis of the results. I will keep you informed about the outcome and will present = results on my website as well. Best regards, Tonny PS : Telescope 2 at CBA Belgium Observatory meanwhile is doing CCD photometry on V1315 Aql, a CBA target. Tonny Vanmunster CBA Belgium Observatory http://www.cbabelgium.com ________________________________________________________ PERANSO : The Final Frontier of Period Analysis Software http://www.peranso.com ________________________________________________________ ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C49066.73440CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original = Message -----=20
Cc: Aavso-Photometry ; = vsnet-alert= ; vsnet-obs =
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:16 PM
Subject: [vsnet-alert 8292] TrES-1 exoplanet transit = observation=20 started at CBA Belgium Observatory - ingress successfuly = measured

Dear colleagues,

I have started a time-series = photometry=20 session on a transit of exoplanet
TrES-1 earlier tonight (2004 Sep 1, = at=20 19h34m UT), under very good sky
conditions. TrES-1 is a very recently = discovered exoplanet (see
http://skyand= telescope.com/news/article_1330_1.asp=20 and
http://a= rxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0408/0408421.pdf=20 for more details),
that has not yet been observed by amateurs=20 before.

I'm using a 0.35-m f/6.3 telescope with an unfiltered = ST-7XME CCD=20 camera, at
CBA Belgium Observatory. An intermediate light curve = analysis of=20 the
acquired data (up till 22h10m UT) very well shows the ingress, = which=20 seems
to have started very close to the predicted time of 21h13m UT. = A fading=20 by
approx. 0.02 mag is clearly visible in the "raw" light curve (that = is,=20 even
without stacking and/or averaging images).

I will = continue to=20 measure the transit all night long - given the very good
weather = conditions,=20 and spend time tomorrow in the final analysis of the
results. I will = keep you=20 informed about the outcome and will present results
on my website as=20 well.

Best regards,
Tonny

PS : Telescope 2 at CBA = Belgium=20 Observatory meanwhile is doing CCD
photometry on V1315 Aql, a CBA=20 target.


Tonny Vanmunster
CBA Belgium Observatory
http://www.cbabelgium.com
_____= ___________________________________________________
PERANSO=20 : The Final Frontier of Period Analysis Software
http://www.peranso.com
___________= _____________________________________________



------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C49066.73440CC0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Wed Sep 1 18:28:07 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i821S6UL030369 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id VAA25701 for public-list; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:02:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav29.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.59]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25697; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:01:31 -0700 Received: from 63.159.20.165 by bay4-dav29.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 01:01:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.20.165] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" , "europa" Subject: SETI public: Fw: Latest News from the Astrobiology Magazine Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:01:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011D_01C49066.DB46A300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:01:31 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 01:01:31.0806 (UTC) FILETIME=[62A3A3E0:01C49088] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C49066.DB46A300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Astrobiology Magazine=20 To: ljk4@msn.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 5:33 AM Subject: Latest News from the Astrobiology Magazine Searching for Scarce Life http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1167.html Chile's Atacama Desert is the driest place on Earth. So dry that, in = some regions, not even bacteria can survive. That makes it a perfect = place to test out Zo=EB, a prototype rover designed to detect life's = faintest traces. Whipple's Flying Sandbank http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1166.html The most cited astronomy papers date back to the early fifties, when = astronomer Fred Whipple proposed that comets were dirty snowballs. His = legacy will live long beyond the passing of America's oldest astronomer. Neptune-Class Worlds Found http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1165.html While striving to find ever smaller, more rocky worlds, planet hunters = have moved from discovering not just Jupiter-class planets outside our = solar system. Now astronomers have found two new Neptune-class planets = on their road to pinpointing a new Earth-like system. Choices in The Quantum Universe http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1164.html Asking questions about the quantum universe is a fool's game: one cannot = get a single answer, only a probability. A committee of particle = physicists bounced this concept around a table to pose the top nine = questions, and a probable path to answering them. Wednesday, September 01=20 ------------------------ For more astrobiology news, visit = http://www.astrobio.net To unsubscribe, send subject UNSUBSCRIBE to = astronaut@astrobio.net ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C49066.DB46A300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original = Message -----=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 5:33 AM
Subject: Latest News from the Astrobiology = Magazine


Searching for Scarce Life
http://www.astrobi= o.net/news/article1167.html

Chile's=20 Atacama Desert is the driest place on Earth. So dry that, in some = regions, not=20 even bacteria can survive. That makes it a perfect place to test out = Zo=EB, a=20 prototype rover designed to detect life's faintest = traces.

Whipple's=20 Flying Sandbank
http://www.astrobi= o.net/news/article1166.html

The=20 most cited astronomy papers date back to the early fifties, when = astronomer Fred=20 Whipple proposed that comets were dirty snowballs. His legacy will live = long=20 beyond the passing of America's oldest astronomer.

Neptune-Class = Worlds=20 Found
http://www.astrobi= o.net/news/article1165.html

While=20 striving to find ever smaller, more rocky worlds, planet hunters have = moved from=20 discovering not just Jupiter-class planets outside our solar system. Now = astronomers have found two new Neptune-class planets on their road to=20 pinpointing a new Earth-like system.

Choices in The Quantum=20 Universe
http://www.astrobi= o.net/news/article1164.html

Asking=20 questions about the quantum universe is a fool's game: one cannot get a = single=20 answer, only a probability. A committee of particle physicists bounced = this=20 concept around a table to pose the top nine questions, and a probable = path to=20 answering them.

Wednesday, September 01=20

------------------------
For more astrobiology news, visit http://www.astrobio.net

To=20 unsubscribe, send subject UNSUBSCRIBE to astronaut@astrobio.net

=


------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C49066.DB46A300-- From owner-public@setileague.org Wed Sep 1 18:51:37 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i821pZUL010142 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id VAA26210 for public-list; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:19:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav3.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.107]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26205; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:19:13 -0700 Received: from 63.159.20.165 by bay4-dav3.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 01:19:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.20.165] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" , "europa" Subject: SETI public: ET Write Home - Looking for Artifacts Instead of Radio/Optical Signals? Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:19:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_017E_01C49069.52A0EB20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:19:10 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 01:19:13.0632 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB896E00:01C4908A] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C49069.52A0EB20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_017F_01C49069.52A0EB20" ------=_NextPart_001_017F_01C49069.52A0EB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040830/full/040830-4.html Published online: 01 September 2004; | doi:10.1038/news040830-4=20 ET write home Mark Peplow=20 =20 Mail, not phone, might be best for interstellar messages. If an extra terrestrial wanted to send a field report describing all she = had learned about Earth, she might be better off writing rather than = phoning. A new analysis has concluded that a physical object would be a = more efficient way to send a long message to the stars than a beam of = radio waves. So while we scour the heavens for radio broadcasts from other worlds, we = should also search our planetary backyard for a parcel of alien = information, says Christopher Rose, an electrical engineer at Rutgers = University, Piscataway, New Jersey, who argues his case in this week's = Nature1. "Communication by the transmission of matter once seemed ridiculous = compared to using radiation, but it's not, and we should be looking for = both," Rose says. He thinks that a stable orbit around Jupiter, or on = the Moon or even the Earth could all be potential mailboxes - all = locations occupied by the alien monoliths in Arthur C. Clarke's novel = 2001. There are plenty of places in the Solar System to hide, agrees Greg = Wright, a physicist from Antiope Associates in Fair Haven, New Jersey, = who worked with Rose on the calculations. "Only parts of the Moon, Mars = and a few asteroids have been mapped carefully," he says. "We haven't = launched a serious search for these sorts of things yet," adds Rose. You've got mail Rose calculated how much energy it would take to send a message to a = star system 1,000 light years hence. The package, travelling at about = one million kilometres per hour, would reach its destination after about = a million years. The radio waves would be sent and received by giant = radio telescopes. For simple messages, a radio transmission would use the least energy, = Rose found. But for a transmission of 100 terabits or more, it is easier = to write. A message of 100 terabits could contain all the books in the US Library = of Congress five times over. Rose argues that any message worth sending = would exceed this easily - perhaps being closer to the 40 million = terabits contained in all the world's telephone calls in a year. An inscribed object has the advantage of remaining legible no matter how = far it travels, whereas even the narrowest beam of radio waves spreads = out over interstellar distances, eventually becoming undetectable. For = long messages over long distances, an alien civilisation is likely to = send a package, says Rose. "Energy is kind of a currency: if something = costs less, it's more likely to get done." I hope that someone finds my... We have sent several inscribed messages into space. The two Voyager = probes each carry a long-playing record of "The Sounds of Earth", and = both Pioneer craft, the first manmade objects to leave our Solar System, = bear plaques charting their route, along with a picture of naked humans = waving a greeting. A similar alien salutation could be waiting on Earth = for us, says Rose. The SETI Institute is already hunting the heavens for radio = transmissions from other stars. Jill Tarter, Director of the Center for = SETI Research in Mountain View, California, agrees with Rose to a point. = "We should look for artifacts of all kinds in our local neighbourhood, = including packages on our doorstep," she says.=20 But she adds that the most important contact is the first, which doesn't = require a long, complicated message. "There's room for Rose and there's = room for radio. For now I'm sticking with radio," she says. ------=_NextPart_001_017F_01C49069.52A0EB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Published online:=20 01 September 2004; | doi:10.1038/news040830-4

ET write home

3D""=20
Mail, not phone, might be = best for=20 interstellar messages.
 
If an=20 extra terrestrial wanted to send a field report describing all she had = learned=20 about Earth, she might be better off writing rather than phoning. A new = analysis=20 has concluded that a physical object would be a more efficient way to = send a=20 long message to the stars than a beam of radio waves.
So while we scour the = heavens for=20 radio broadcasts from other worlds, we should also search our planetary = backyard=20 for a parcel of alien information, says Christopher Rose, an electrical = engineer=20 at Rutgers University, Piscataway, New Jersey, who argues his case in = this=20 week's Nature1.
"Communication by the=20 transmission of matter once seemed ridiculous compared to using = radiation, but=20 it's not, and we should be looking for both," Rose says. He thinks that = a stable=20 orbit around Jupiter, or on the Moon or even the Earth could all be = potential=20 mailboxes - all locations occupied by the alien monoliths in Arthur C. = Clarke's=20 novel 2001.

There are plenty of places in the Solar System to hide, = agrees Greg=20 Wright, a physicist from Antiope Associates in Fair Haven, New Jersey, = who=20 worked with Rose on the calculations. "Only parts of the Moon, Mars and = a few=20 asteroids have been mapped carefully," he says. "We haven't launched a = serious=20 search for these sorts of things yet," adds Rose.
You've=20 got mail

Rose calculated how much energy it would take to send a = message to a=20 star system 1,000 light years hence. The package, travelling at about = one=20 million kilometres per hour, would reach its destination after about a = million=20 years. The radio waves would be sent and received by giant radio=20 telescopes.

For=20 simple messages, a radio transmission would use the least energy, Rose = found.=20 But for a transmission of 100 terabits or more, it is easier to = write.
A message of 100 terabits could contain all = the books in=20 the US Library of Congress five times over. Rose argues that any message = worth=20 sending would exceed this easily - perhaps being closer to the 40 = million=20 terabits contained in all the world's telephone calls in a year.
An inscribed object has = the advantage=20 of remaining legible no matter how far it travels, whereas even the = narrowest=20 beam of radio waves spreads out over interstellar distances, eventually = becoming=20 undetectable. For long messages over long distances, an alien = civilisation is=20 likely to send a package, says Rose. "Energy is kind of a currency: if = something=20 costs less, it's more likely to get done."

I hope that someone finds = my...
We have = sent several=20 inscribed messages into space. The two Voyager probes each carry a = long-playing=20 record of "The Sounds of Earth", and both Pioneer craft, the first = manmade=20 objects to leave our Solar System, bear plaques charting their route, = along with=20 a picture of naked humans waving a greeting. A similar alien salutation = could be=20 waiting on Earth for us, says Rose.
The SETI=20 Institute is already hunting the heavens for radio transmissions from = other=20 stars. Jill Tarter, Director of the Center for SETI Research in Mountain = View,=20 California, agrees with Rose to a point. "We should look for artifacts = of all=20 kinds in our local neighbourhood, including packages on our doorstep," = she says.=20

But she adds=20 that the most important contact is the first, which doesn't require a = long,=20 complicated message. "There's room for Rose and there's room for radio. = For now=20 I'm sticking with radio," she says.
 
------=_NextPart_001_017F_01C49069.52A0EB20-- ------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C49069.52A0EB20 Content-Type: image/gif; name="spacer.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Location: http://www.nature.com/images/spacer.gif R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C49069.52A0EB20-- From owner-public@setileague.org Wed Sep 1 19:35:04 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i822Z2UL029805 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id WAA27163 for public-list; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:04:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav8.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.112]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27159; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:03:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:03:27 -0700 Received: from 63.159.20.165 by bay4-dav8.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 02:03:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.20.165] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" , "europa" Subject: SETI public: Alien Contact More Likely by "Mail" Than Radio, Study Says Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:03:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_027F_01C4906F.7D4B8F50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:03:19 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 02:03:27.0198 (UTC) FILETIME=[092F77E0:01C49091] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_027F_01C4906F.7D4B8F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0901_040901_alien_contact= html Alien Contact More Likely by "Mail" Than Radio, Study Says=20 Stefan Lovgren for National Geographic News September 1, 2004 Are we alone in the universe?=20 In pursuit of an answer to that formidable question, scientists have for = decades been searching the skies with radio waves to pick up any signs = of alien life.=20 They may be looking in the wrong place.=20 A new study suggests it is more energy efficient to communicate across = interstellar space by sending physical material-a sort of message in a = bottle-than beams of electromagnetic radiation. Solid matter can hold = more information and journey farther than radio waves, which disperse as = they travel.=20 Researchers behind the study speculate that other life-forms may have = already sent us messages, perhaps even as organic material embedded in = asteroids that have struck Earth.=20 "Any contact that we might establish with extraterrestrial life-forms is = more likely to occur from a physical artifact than from electromagnetic = communication," said Christopher Rose, a professor of electrical and = computer engineering at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, New Jersey. = Rose is a co-author of the study.=20 The theory is not new, but it is the first time it has been quantified. = The research is described in this week's issue of the science journal = Nature.=20 Diluted Signals=20 Humans have already sent inscribed information into outer space in the = hope of reaching alien life.=20 The Voyager 1 spacecraft has traveled more than 13.5 billion kilometers = (8.4 billion miles) since its launch in 1977. It is carrying a 12-inch = (30-centimeter) disk containing a message from Earth: sounds and images = selected by the late astronomer Carl Sagan and spoken greetings in 55 = languages.=20 But the main focus among alien-hunters has been on electromagnetic = radiation-radio and optical waves.=20 The private SETI Institute in Mountain View, California-its name is an = acronym for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence-is the most = prominent organization involved in the search for intelligent life = beyond Earth.=20 The institute sends out-and looks for-radio signals in interstellar = space. So far, it has not detected any signs of alien life.=20 That, however, does not prove there is no alien life. Instead, it could = be because radio signals get diluted as they travel across great = distances in space, says Rose, whose research grew out of his work at = the Wireless Information Network Laboratory (WINLAB) at Rutgers = University.=20 "Our original question was, How do you get the most bits per second over = a wireless channel?" Rose said.=20 He learned that the "energy budget" required for sending a radio signal = increases with distance. Beams of radiation are cone-shaped and grow in = size as they travel outward, meaning the great majority of their energy = is wasted.=20 Potential recipients may not even be capable of receiving the message. = "There's no guarantee that there's anything out there that is evolved = that can listen to the message, hear it, and decode it," Rose said.=20 A far more energy efficient way of communicating over great interstellar = distances is to send a physical object with encoded information, Rose = said. Such a package is not diluted as it travels across space. It also = stays where it lands.=20 "Our calculations suggest that it's not only more energy efficient to = send a package than radio waves," he said, "it's outrageously more = efficient."=20 Humans already have the technology to encode dense information-genetic = material, for example-in incredibly small packages. What we lack is the = navigational capability to make sure the message gets to its = destination.=20 "But if we can envision doing that in a hundred years, odds are that, if = there's anything out there like us, they can probably do it too," Rose = said.=20 Sea Post vs. Airmail=20 It is far from clear, however, that the key criterion for choosing a = message's medium is energy expanded per data bit.=20 "There's little doubt that physically transporting information can be a = very efficient way to get it from one place to another, if all you care = about is the energy costs," said Seth Shostak, a SETI scientist. "I = could ship the Library of Congress to Australia in a tanker, and the = cost per bit would be low."=20 Speed is a factor equally worth considering, Shostak says.=20 "Do I want to package up my message, put it in a rocket, and wait 10,000 = years for it to arrive?" he said. "Or send it on a light beam that's = transmitting for a month, but that only takes a decade to arrive at that = far-off world? It's like the difference between sea post and airmail."=20 Rose acknowledges that the choice of medium depends on the message being = sent. "If you just want to say, I'm here, that's not that many bits of = information. So it's probably better to communicate via radio waves than = sending a physical message," he said.=20 Alien Packages=20 Rose says that humans may have been too concerned about trying to send = and receive interstellar communication in their own lifetime. It may = take tens of thousands of years for a message to reach an alien = civilization and just as long for it to get back, Rose says. Trying to = set up two-way communication may be a mistake.=20 "You don't know when an extraterrestrial civilization will spring up, = and you don't know if it's going to last," he said. "We only started to = see beyond our planet in the past few hundred years. The probability of = contacting someone in our galaxy and setting up two-way communication is = reasonably low. You have to hit them at the exact right time."=20 If the sender isn't concerned about reaching the recipient and getting = an answer in his or her own lifetime, inscribing and sending material is = the way to go, Rose said.=20 "The nice thing about matter is that you send it once and it more or = less stays there," he said.=20 The researchers speculate that there may be extraterrestrial packages = already here in our planetary backyard, perhaps in the vicinity of = Jupiter, the sun, or the moon-or maybe even here on Earth in the form of = organic material embedded in an asteroid.=20 "There might be many different messages from many different places = sitting all around us," Rose said.=20 In an accompanying Nature article, Woodruff Sullivan, an astronomy = professor at the University of Washington in Seattle, wrote that SETI = should continue its radio wave research. But the institute should also = be open to the idea of one day finding an information-drenched artifact, = sent by an alien civilization interested only in one-way communication.=20 "It is a scenario reminiscent of 2001: A Space Odyssey, wherein a = monolith discovered on the moon is . left by an extraterrestrial = intelligence," Sullivan writes. "If astro-archaeologists were to find = such, it would hardly be the first time that science fiction had become = science fact."=20 ------=_NextPart_000_027F_01C4906F.7D4B8F50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0901_04090= 1_alien_contact.html
 
Alien Contact More Likely by "Mail" Than Radio, = Study=20 Says=20

Stefan Lovgren
for National Geographic = News
September 1,=20 2004

Are we alone in the universe?=20

In pursuit of an answer to that formidable question, scientists have = for=20 decades been searching the skies with radio waves to pick up any signs = of alien=20 life.=20

They may be looking in the wrong place.=20

A new study suggests it is more energy efficient to communicate = across=20 interstellar space by sending physical material=97a sort of message in a = bottle=97than beams of electromagnetic radiation. Solid matter can hold = more=20 information and journey farther than radio waves, which disperse as they = travel.

Researchers behind the study speculate that other life-forms may have = already=20 sent us messages, perhaps even as organic material embedded in asteroids = that=20 have struck Earth.=20

"Any contact that we might establish with extraterrestrial life-forms = is more=20 likely to occur from a physical artifact than from electromagnetic=20 communication," said Christopher Rose, a professor of electrical and = computer=20 engineering at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Rose is = a=20 co-author of the study.=20

The theory is not new, but it is the first time it has been = quantified. The=20 research is described in this week's issue of the science journal = Nature.=20

Diluted Signals=20

Humans have already sent inscribed information into outer space in = the hope=20 of reaching alien life.=20

The Voyager 1 spacecraft has traveled more than 13.5 billion = kilometers (8.4=20 billion miles) since its launch in 1977. It is carrying a 12-inch=20 (30-centimeter) disk containing a message from Earth: sounds and images = selected=20 by the late astronomer Carl Sagan and spoken greetings in 55 languages.=20

But the main focus among alien-hunters has been on electromagnetic=20 radiation=97radio and optical waves.=20

The private SETI Institute in Mountain View, California=97its name is = an=20 acronym for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence=97is the most = prominent=20 organization involved in the search for intelligent life beyond Earth.=20

The institute sends out=97and looks for=97radio signals in = interstellar space. So=20 far, it has not detected any signs of alien life.=20

That, however, does not prove there is no alien life. Instead, it = could be=20 because radio signals get diluted as they travel across great distances = in=20 space, says Rose, whose research grew out of his work at the Wireless=20 Information Network Laboratory (WINLAB) at Rutgers University.=20

"Our original question was, How do you get the most bits per second = over a=20 wireless channel?" Rose said.=20

He learned that the "energy budget" required for sending a radio = signal=20 increases with distance. Beams of radiation are cone-shaped and grow in = size as=20 they travel outward, meaning the great majority of their energy is = wasted.=20

Potential recipients may not even be capable of receiving the = message.=20 "There's no guarantee that there's anything out there that is evolved = that can=20 listen to the message, hear it, and decode it," Rose said.=20

A far more energy efficient way of communicating over great = interstellar=20 distances is to send a physical object with encoded information, Rose = said. Such=20 a package is not diluted as it travels across space. It also stays where = it=20 lands.=20

"Our calculations suggest that it's not only more energy efficient to = send a=20 package than radio waves," he said, "it's outrageously more = efficient."=20

Humans already have the technology to encode dense = information=97genetic=20 material, for example=97in incredibly small packages. What we lack is = the=20 navigational capability to make sure the message gets to its = destination.=20

"But if we can envision doing that in a hundred years, odds are that, = if=20 there's anything out there like us, they can probably do it too," Rose = said.=20

Sea Post vs. Airmail=20

It is far from clear, however, that the key criterion for choosing a=20 message's medium is energy expanded per data bit.=20

"There's little doubt that physically transporting information can be = a very=20 efficient way to get it from one place to another, if all you care about = is the=20 energy costs," said Seth Shostak, a SETI scientist. "I could ship the = Library of=20 Congress to Australia in a tanker, and the cost per bit would be low."=20

Speed is a factor equally worth considering, Shostak says.=20

"Do I want to package up my message, put it in a rocket, and wait = 10,000=20 years for it to arrive?" he said. "Or send it on a light beam that's=20 transmitting for a month, but that only takes a decade to arrive at that = far-off=20 world? It's like the difference between sea post and airmail."=20

Rose acknowledges that the choice of medium depends on the message = being=20 sent. "If you just want to say, I'm here, that's not that many bits of=20 information. So it's probably better to communicate via radio waves than = sending=20 a physical message," he said.=20

Alien Packages=20

Rose says that humans may have been too concerned about trying to = send and=20 receive interstellar communication in their own lifetime. It may take = tens of=20 thousands of years for a message to reach an alien civilization and just = as long=20 for it to get back, Rose says. Trying to set up two-way communication = may be a=20 mistake.=20

"You don't know when an extraterrestrial civilization will spring up, = and you=20 don't know if it's going to last," he said. "We only started to see = beyond our=20 planet in the past few hundred years. The probability of contacting = someone in=20 our galaxy and setting up two-way communication is reasonably low. You = have to=20 hit them at the exact right time."=20

If the sender isn't concerned about reaching the recipient and = getting an=20 answer in his or her own lifetime, inscribing and sending material is = the way to=20 go, Rose said.=20

"The nice thing about matter is that you send it once and it more or = less=20 stays there," he said.=20

The researchers speculate that there may be extraterrestrial packages = already=20 here in our planetary backyard, perhaps in the vicinity of Jupiter, the = sun, or=20 the moon=97or maybe even here on Earth in the form of organic material = embedded in=20 an asteroid.=20

"There might be many different messages from many different places = sitting=20 all around us," Rose said.=20

In an accompanying Nature article, Woodruff Sullivan, an = astronomy=20 professor at the University of Washington in Seattle, wrote that SETI = should=20 continue its radio wave research. But the institute should also be open = to the=20 idea of one day finding an information-drenched artifact, sent by an = alien=20 civilization interested only in one-way communication.=20

"It is a scenario reminiscent of 2001: A Space Odyssey, = wherein a=20 monolith discovered on the moon is =85 left by an extraterrestrial = intelligence,"=20 Sullivan writes. "If astro-archaeologists were to find such, it would = hardly be=20 the first time that science fiction had become science fact."

 

------=_NextPart_000_027F_01C4906F.7D4B8F50-- From owner-public@setileague.org Wed Sep 1 19:55:35 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i822tYUL014325 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id WAA27856 for public-list; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:35:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from vsmtp2.tin.it (vsmtp2alice.tin.it [212.216.176.142]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27822; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:33:29 -0400 (EDT) From: brmoret@tin.it Received: from ims3d.cp.tin.it (192.168.70.103) by vsmtp2.tin.it (7.0.027) id 41362EF40001460A; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 04:32:59 +0200 Received: from [192.168.70.226] by ims3d.cp.tin.it with HTTP; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 04:32:58 +0200 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 04:32:58 +0200 Message-ID: <411971EB0000B31E@ims3d.cp.tin.it> Subject: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! To: bioastro@setileague.org Cc: public@setileague.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by seti1.setileague.org id WAA27823 Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!! Innovative SETI using the KLT! http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577 Comments? Dark & clear skies from Italy! Bruno Moretti IK2WQA SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233 http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ From owner-public@setileague.org Wed Sep 1 23:50:32 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i826oUUL026966 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 23:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id CAA02609 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 02:16:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from jollyroger.montana.com (jollyroger.montana.com [66.109.128.82]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02600; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 02:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office (66.109.135.171.mso.montana.com [66.109.135.171]) by jollyroger.montana.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i826FWnl032481; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 00:15:35 -0600 From: "Don Latham" To: , Cc: Subject: RE: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 00:16:19 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <411971EB0000B31E@ims3d.cp.tin.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Milter: Stats for this sender(66.109.135.171) over the last (60) seconds con_count(1) msg_count(6) Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk Sure. The KLT is referred to but not described. Where can we get the details of the transform? I for one would be interested in trying it out! Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-public@setileague.org [mailto:owner-public@setileague.org]On Behalf Of brmoret@tin.it Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:33 PM To: bioastro@setileague.org Cc: public@setileague.org Subject: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!! Innovative SETI using the KLT! http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577 Comments? Dark & clear skies from Italy! Bruno Moretti IK2WQA SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233 http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 05:27:23 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82CRIUL015745 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 05:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id HAA08865 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:33:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from web81705.mail.yahoo.com (web81705.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.136]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA08851 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20040902113325.17252.qmail@web81705.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.0.73.251] by web81705.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 04:33:25 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 04:33:25 -0700 (PDT) From: David Ocame Subject: RE: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! To: Don Latham , brmoret@tin.it, bioastro@setileague.org Cc: public@setileague.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk I would also love to try it. However, I understand that the KLT can only be implemented on very large, very fast computers like a Cray supercomputer. Is this true? Dear Bruno, I have only a Pentium 4 PC with 256 Mb of RAM at 2 Ghz, and a 40 Gb Hard Drive. Can the KLT run on this equipment? Thanks, Dave --- Don Latham wrote: > Sure. The KLT is referred to but not described. > Where can we get the details > of the transform? > I for one would be interested in trying it out! > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-public@setileague.org > [mailto:owner-public@setileague.org]On > Behalf Of brmoret@tin.it > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:33 PM > To: bioastro@setileague.org > Cc: public@setileague.org > Subject: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time > for lifting! > > > Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! > > FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!! > > Innovative SETI using the KLT! > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577 > > > Comments? > > > Dark & clear skies from Italy! > > > Bruno Moretti IK2WQA > SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233 > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html > IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ > > > ===== *********************************** *********************************** Dave Ocame, N1YVV East Shore Park Observatory FN31ng -72.53856 longitude 41.16797 latitude From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 08:04:11 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82F49UL013135 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id KAA12559 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:32:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from plounts.uits.indiana.edu (plounts.uits.indiana.edu [129.79.1.73]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12550; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lear.ucs.indiana.edu (lear.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.5.208]) by plounts.uits.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUPO) with ESMTP id i82EWh7Y028103; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:32:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (foxd@localhost) by lear.ucs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/1.2lear-imap3) with SMTP id i82EWien012808; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:32:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:32:44 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boyd Fox X-Sender: foxd@lear.ucs.indiana.edu To: brmoret@tin.it cc: bioastro@setileague.org, public@setileague.org Subject: Re: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! In-Reply-To: <411971EB0000B31E@ims3d.cp.tin.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk I'm not able to get the page. As I understand it, the Karhunen-Loeve Transform is very computationally intensive. It would be nice if there were a computational shortcut discovered. 73, Daniel Fox KF9ET On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 brmoret@tin.it wrote: > Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! > > FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!! > > Innovative SETI using the KLT! > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577 > > > Comments? > > > Dark & clear skies from Italy! > > > Bruno Moretti IK2WQA > SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233 > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html > IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ > > > From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 08:24:45 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82FOgUL017277 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id KAA12755 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:41:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav19.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.123]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12698; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:39:39 -0700 Received: from 63.159.120.69 by bay4-dav19.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:39:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.120.69] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: , Cc: References: <411971EB0000B31E@ims3d.cp.tin.it> Subject: Re: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:39:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01C490D9.2704DE70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:39:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 14:39:39.0946 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD7360A0:01C490FA] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C490D9.2704DE70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have you seen the new looks for SETI@Home? http://www.planetary.org/news/2004/boinc_graphics_0824.html Has anyone tried BOINC yet? http://www.planetary.org/news/2004/seti_boinc_0824.html Larry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: brmoret@tin.it=20 To: bioastro@setileague.org=20 Cc: public@setileague.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:32 PM Subject: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time = for lifting! Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! =20 FFT Fast Fourier Transform =3D SETI's Stone Age!!!=20 Innovative SETI using the KLT! = http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3D3577 Comments? Dark & clear skies from Italy! Bruno Moretti IK2WQA SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi = http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=3D30233 = http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C490D9.2704DE70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Have you seen the new looks for SETI@Home?
 
 
Has anyone tried BOINC yet?
 
 
Larry
 
----- Original Message -----
To: bioastro@setileague.org =
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, = 2004 10:32=20 PM
Subject: SETI public: Old Lady = SETI@home, it's = time for=20 lifting!

Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! =20

FFT Fast Fourier Transform =3D SETI's Stone Age!!! =

Innovative=20 SETI using the KLT!
http:= //setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3D3577


Comm= ents?


Dark=20 & clear skies from Italy!


Bruno Moretti IK2WQA
SETI = ITALIA=20 Team G. Cocconi
= http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=3D30233
htt= p://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html
IARA=20 http://www.iaragroup.org/

<= /BLOCKQUOTE>
------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C490D9.2704DE70-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 08:31:33 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82FVWUL021457 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id KAA12850 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:46:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from rockridge.uits.indiana.edu (rockridge.uits.indiana.edu [129.79.1.74]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12841; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lear.ucs.indiana.edu (lear.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.5.208]) by rockridge.uits.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUPO) with ESMTP id i82EkA1W002674; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:46:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (foxd@localhost) by lear.ucs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/1.2lear-imap3) with SMTP id i82EkBTA014853; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:46:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:46:11 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boyd Fox X-Sender: foxd@lear.ucs.indiana.edu To: Don Latham cc: brmoret@tin.it, bioastro@setileague.org, public@setileague.org Subject: RE: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk I have a description of the algorithm at home, I'll see if I can find it. The main problem with it is that it is very computationally intensive and doesn't scale well. IIRC the number of computations on a dataset N goes up at N*N instead of N*log N. 73, Daniel Fox KF9ET On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Don Latham wrote: > Sure. The KLT is referred to but not described. Where can we get the details > of the transform? > I for one would be interested in trying it out! > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-public@setileague.org [mailto:owner-public@setileague.org]On > Behalf Of brmoret@tin.it > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:33 PM > To: bioastro@setileague.org > Cc: public@setileague.org > Subject: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! > > > Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! > > FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!! > > Innovative SETI using the KLT! > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577 > > > Comments? > > > Dark & clear skies from Italy! > > > Bruno Moretti IK2WQA > SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233 > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html > IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ > > > > From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 08:54:52 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82FslUL004056 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id LAA13598 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:20:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from web81703.mail.yahoo.com (web81703.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.134]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13594 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20040902152014.9347.qmail@web81703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [130.132.89.165] by web81703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 08:20:14 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:20:14 -0700 (PDT) From: David Ocame Subject: Re: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! To: public@setileague.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk I think the paper this refers to is contained on the EuroSETI04 CD of the proceedings. I'll check this when I get home. If this is any help. Dave Ocame --- Daniel Boyd Fox wrote: > I'm not able to get the page. As I understand it, > the > Karhunen-Loeve Transform is very computationally > intensive. It would be > nice if there were a computational shortcut > discovered. > > 73, > Daniel Fox > KF9ET > > > On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 brmoret@tin.it wrote: > > > Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! > > > > FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!! > > > > Innovative SETI using the KLT! > > > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577 > > > > > > Comments? > > > > > > Dark & clear skies from Italy! > > > > > > Bruno Moretti IK2WQA > > SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi > > > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233 > > > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html > > IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ > > > > > > > > ===== *********************************** *********************************** Dave Ocame, N1YVV East Shore Park Observatory FN31ng -72.53856 longitude 41.16797 latitude From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 09:10:07 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82GA4UL029720 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id LAA13817 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:29:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav8.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.112]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13813; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:29:12 -0700 Received: from 63.159.120.69 by bay4-dav8.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:29:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.120.69] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: Mysterious signals from 1000 light years away Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:29:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C490E0.1304C410" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:29:13 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 15:29:12.0882 (UTC) FILETIME=[99756920:01C49101] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C490E0.1304C410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ************************* Mysterious signals from 1000 light years away NewScientist.com News Sept. 1, 2004 ************************* A radio signal designated "SHGb02+14a" seems to be coming from a point between the constellations Pisces and Aries, where there is no obvious star or planetary system within 1000 light years. And the transmission is very weak. It has a frequency of about 1420 megahertz (one of the main frequencies at which hydrogen, the most common element in... http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3679&m=3D7610<= http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3679&m=3D7610>= ************************* Alien Contact More Likely by 'Mail' Than Radio, Study Says National Geographic News Sept. 1, 2004 ************************* A new study suggests it is more energy-efficient to communicate across interstellar space by sending physical material than beams of electromagnetic radiation. Beams of radiation are cone-shaped and grow in size as they travel outward, meaning the great majority of their energy is wasted. A far more energy-efficient -- although slower --... http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3678&m=3D7610<= http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3678&m=3D7610>= ************************* Virtual Humans Proposed As Space Travelers Space.com Sept. 1, 2004 ************************* A partnership between in-the-flesh space voyagers and virtual humans may make sense for a humans-to-Mars mission and other manned space exploration, says author Peter Plantec. A virtual human could be set up to monitor highly complex systems in real time. It can interface with the human sojourner, easing that person's workload, Plantec... http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3680&m=3D7610<= http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3680&m=3D7610>= ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C490E0.1304C410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
*************************
Mysterious signals from 1000 = light
years=20 away

NewScientist.com News Sept. 1, = 2004
*************************

A radio signal designated
"SHGb02+14a" seems to be coming = from
a=20 point between the constellations
Pisces and Aries, where there is=20 no
obvious star or planetary system
within 1000 light years. And=20 the
transmission is very weak. It has a
frequency of about 1420=20 megahertz
(one of the main frequencies at
which hydrogen, the most = common
element in...

http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3= 679&m=3D7610



*************************
Alien=20 Contact More Likely by 'Mail'
Than Radio, Study Says
National = Geographic=20 News Sept. 1, 2004
*************************
A new study suggests = it is=20 more
energy-efficient to communicate
across interstellar space by=20 sending
physical material than beams of
electromagnetic radiation. = Beams=20 of
radiation are cone-shaped and grow
in size as they travel=20 outward,
meaning the great majority of their
energy is wasted. A = far=20 more
energy-efficient -- although slower
--...
http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3= 678&m=3D7610

*************************
Virtual=20 Humans Proposed As Space
Travelers
Space.com Sept. 1,=20 2004
*************************
A partnership between = in-the-flesh
space=20 voyagers and virtual humans
may make sense for a = humans-to-Mars
mission=20 and other manned space
exploration, says author Peter
Plantec. A = virtual=20 human could be
set up to monitor highly complex
systems in real = time. It=20 can
interface with the human sojourner,
easing that person's=20 workload,
Plantec...
http://www.kurzweilai.net/email/newsRedirect.html?newsID=3D3= 680&m=3D7610


------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C490E0.1304C410-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 10:13:46 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82HDhUL007633 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id MAA15227 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:28:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav16.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.120]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15223; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:28:16 -0700 Received: from 63.159.120.69 by bay4-dav16.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:28:16 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.120.69] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: But Are They Red Planets or Blue Planets? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:28:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_017B_01C490E8.51BD7640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:28:15 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 16:28:16.0357 (UTC) FILETIME=[D988C950:01C49109] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017B_01C490E8.51BD7640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50842-2004Aug31.html washingtonpost.com=20 But Are They Red Planets or Blue Planets?=20 By Joel Achenbach Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, September 1, 2004; Page C01=20 As we focus on President Bush's verbal slip about the unwinnable war on = terror, and John Kerry's Vietnam Swift boating, some scientists, = intrusive and utterly indifferent to the political calendar, yesterday = announced the discovery of two new planets the size of Neptune.=20 Your first question is whether there are any aliens there, and, if so, = do they crave human flesh. Then you try to remember how big Neptune is. = Then you wonder if this is a ploy to distract you from the important = issues that face our nation, such as whether Bush showed up for all of = his National Guard service, and whether Kerry was really in Cambodia = that Christmas or just near the border.=20 Finally, you slap yourself, because you know that science matters, that = discoveries in outer space are important for our future as a species, = and, moreover, that the discovery of these new planets might somehow = move the polls in the swing states. (Fact: If someone cures cancer in the next three months there'll be a = sidebar on how it will affect the race in Florida.) They made the announcement at NASA headquarters on a little stage backed = by a mural of a spiral galaxy much like the Milky Way (scale: 1 inch =3D = 100 gazillion miles). A placard said Smallest Exoplanets Discovered, = which, in planet-hunting, is a form of boasting. Small is good, because = it's more Earthlike. Large means Jupiterish -- crushingly uninhabitable = and repulsively gaseous -- and we now know the galaxy is lousy with = Jupiters. A decade ago we knew of no planets outside our solar system, = but since then we've detected more than a hundred extrasolar Jupiters, = and if you were to stand up today and say you had found a new planet = 80,000 miles in diameter everyone would just say "And?? . . . " The NASA event took place during a rather frenzied period in = planet-hunting. A few days ago a Swiss team of astronomers, knowing that = the Americans were poised to make a big announcement, rushed out the = news that they'd discovered the smallest planet, even smaller than the = two announced yesterday. But the scientists at NASA HQ asserted their = priority, say they'd submitted their findings to refereed scientific = journals before the Swiss did. We live in contentious times. One new planet orbits the star Gliese 436, an "M-dwarf," also known as a = red dwarf, a type that's common in the galaxy. The discovery of planets = around these faint, but utterly ordinary stars suggests that the Milky = Way may be chockablock with planets. The other new planet is yet more = intriguing, for it's the fourth planet found around the star 55 Cancri. = The diversity of planets in that system implies that, just as in our = solar system, these things come in many sizes. "We're on our way to finding our first extrasolar Earth," said = University of Texas astronomer Barbara McArthur. Scientists dream of = finding "Earths that, in the Goldilocks sense, have the temperature just = right," astronomer Geoff Marcy said yesterday. Now we mull the political implications. In truth, it's hard to know if 21st-century science can possibly affect = a political contest that retains certain 19th-century attributes. We = think in four-year increments. We fight the last war. We're better at = politics than science. Science has this fetish about facts; in attack = ads, those are optional.=20 Many scientific announcements about outer space involve things that = don't seem to matter much to ordinary people. When they find a black = hole out there it's hard to get too excited unless there's a clear and = present danger that it will soon suck us in. In which case we will = preemptively invade. At the risk of grossly overgeneralizing, it's fair to say that there are = some Republicans who have no interest in habitable worlds -- including = Earth. To even discuss alien worlds is to run the danger of being seen = as a kind of Jerry Brown-ish peyote-eating space cadet, completely out = of touch with the concerns of no-nonsense Americans who drive pickups = and fix fence posts and didn't see the movie "You've Got Mail."=20 Other Republicans are more open-minded about alien worlds, but = understand the political realities: If we find a place inhabited by = octopodan creatures with four heads and tentacles and a slitlike orifice = that spurts slime onto the ground to predigest food, that's just a whole = bunch more Democrats. The new planets have yet to show themselves to be that most prized thing = in the Republican universe: marketable real estate. What we need are = vivid images of the terrain of these worlds, so that people can start = figuring out where to put the driving range, the sand traps and the = water hazards. Democrats, meanwhile, embrace the idea of alien worlds. In the liberal = imagination, these are places that can be colonized in order to create = the perfect society, one where all decisions are made communally and all = produce is organic. Imagine no possessions: That's going to be the law = on Gliese 436. Besides, if Bush wins reelection, the Democrats are going to need a = place to go. ------=_NextPart_000_017B_01C490E8.51BD7640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50842-2004Aug31.= html

 washingtonpost.com=20

But Are They Red Planets or Blue Planets?

By Joel=20 Achenbach
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 1, = 2004; Page=20 C01


As we focus on President Bush's verbal slip about the = unwinnable=20 war on terror, and John Kerry's Vietnam Swift boating, some scientists,=20 intrusive and utterly indifferent to the political calendar, yesterday = announced=20 the discovery of two new planets the size of Neptune.

Your first = question is whether there are any aliens there, and, if so, do they = crave human=20 flesh. Then you try to remember how big Neptune is. Then you wonder if = this is a=20 ploy to distract you from the important issues that face our nation, = such as=20 whether Bush showed up for all of his National Guard service, and = whether Kerry=20 was really in Cambodia that Christmas or just near the border. =

Finally,=20 you slap yourself, because you know that science matters, that = discoveries in=20 outer space are important for our future as a species, and, moreover, = that the=20 discovery of these new planets might somehow move the polls in the swing = states.

(Fact: If someone cures cancer in the next three months = there'll=20 be a sidebar on how it will affect the race in Florida.)

They = made the=20 announcement at NASA headquarters on a little stage backed by a mural of = a=20 spiral galaxy much like the Milky Way (scale: 1 inch =3D 100 gazillion = miles). A=20 placard said Smallest Exoplanets Discovered, which, in planet-hunting, = is a form=20 of boasting. Small is good, because it's more Earthlike. Large means = Jupiterish=20 -- crushingly uninhabitable and repulsively gaseous -- and we now know = the=20 galaxy is lousy with Jupiters. A decade ago we knew of no planets = outside our=20 solar system, but since then we've detected more than a hundred = extrasolar=20 Jupiters, and if you were to stand up today and say you had found a new = planet=20 80,000 miles in diameter everyone would just say "And?? . . . = "

The NASA=20 event took place during a rather frenzied period in planet-hunting. A = few days=20 ago a Swiss team of astronomers, knowing that the Americans were poised = to make=20 a big announcement, rushed out the news that they'd discovered the = smallest=20 planet, even smaller than the two announced yesterday. But the = scientists at=20 NASA HQ asserted their priority, say they'd submitted their findings to = refereed=20 scientific journals before the Swiss did. We live in contentious=20 times.

One new planet orbits the star Gliese 436, an "M-dwarf," = also=20 known as a red dwarf, a type that's common in the galaxy. The discovery = of=20 planets around these faint, but utterly ordinary stars suggests that the = Milky=20 Way may be chockablock with planets. The other new planet is yet more=20 intriguing, for it's the fourth planet found around the star 55 Cancri. = The=20 diversity of planets in that system implies that, just as in our solar = system,=20 these things come in many sizes.

"We're on our way to finding our = first=20 extrasolar Earth," said University of Texas astronomer Barbara McArthur. = Scientists dream of finding "Earths that, in the Goldilocks sense, have = the=20 temperature just right," astronomer Geoff Marcy said = yesterday.

Now we=20 mull the political implications.

In truth, it's hard to know if=20 21st-century science can possibly affect a political contest that = retains=20 certain 19th-century attributes. We think in four-year increments. We = fight the=20 last war. We're better at politics than science. Science has this fetish = about=20 facts; in attack ads, those are optional.

Many scientific = announcements=20 about outer space involve things that don't seem to matter much to = ordinary=20 people. When they find a black hole out there it's hard to get too = excited=20 unless there's a clear and present danger that it will soon suck us in. = In which=20 case we will preemptively invade.

At the risk of grossly=20 overgeneralizing, it's fair to say that there are some Republicans who = have no=20 interest in habitable worlds -- including Earth. To even discuss alien = worlds is=20 to run the danger of being seen as a kind of Jerry Brown-ish = peyote-eating space=20 cadet, completely out of touch with the concerns of no-nonsense = Americans who=20 drive pickups and fix fence posts and didn't see the movie "You've Got = Mail."=20

Other Republicans are more open-minded about alien worlds, but=20 understand the political realities: If we find a place inhabited by = octopodan=20 creatures with four heads and tentacles and a slitlike orifice that = spurts slime=20 onto the ground to predigest food, that's just a whole bunch more=20 Democrats.

The new planets have yet to show themselves to be that = most=20 prized thing in the Republican universe: marketable real estate. What we = need=20 are vivid images of the terrain of these worlds, so that people can = start=20 figuring out where to put the driving range, the sand traps and the = water=20 hazards.

Democrats, meanwhile, embrace the idea of alien worlds. = In the=20 liberal imagination, these are places that can be colonized in order to = create=20 the perfect society, one where all decisions are made communally and all = produce=20 is organic. Imagine no possessions: That's going to be the law on Gliese = 436.

Besides, if Bush wins reelection, the Democrats are going to = need a=20 place to go.


------=_NextPart_000_017B_01C490E8.51BD7640-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 10:25:04 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82HP3UL001871 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id MAA15782 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:52:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15717; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:50:29 -0400 (EDT) From: robbins49@comcast.net Received: from 204.127.197.119 ([204.127.197.119]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004090216495401500lsirpe>; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:49:54 +0000 Received: from [12.26.69.6] by 204.127.197.119; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:49:53 +0000 To: Daniel Boyd Fox Cc: brmoret@tin.it, bioastro@setileague.org, public@setileague.org Subject: RE: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:49:53 +0000 Message-Id: <090220041649.8703.41374F2F000D3737000021FF2200761438C7CB9C02070D0D019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9iYmluczQ5QGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_8703_1094143793_0" Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_8703_1094143793_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Speaking as a Seti enthusiast, with no particular background or understanding of the math involved in calculating KLT's etc.....I would say that if using KLT's are useful to seti, even though KLT's are computationally intense, we may want to consider laying the ground work for their use. The crunch power of your average desktop PC continues to grow at a rate that is nothing less than incredible. Both Intel and AMD are already showing off dual processor cpu's. (not to mention 64 bit processors) I would venture to say that the computational power required to use KLT's may be close at hand. Regards, Allan FM17dk -------------- Original message -------------- > > I have a description of the algorithm at home, I'll see if I can find it. > The main problem with it is that it is very computationally intensive and > doesn't scale well. IIRC the number of computations on a dataset N goes > up at N*N instead of N*log N. > > 73, > Daniel Fox > KF9ET > > > On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Don Latham wrote: > > > Sure. The KLT is referred to but not described. Where can we get the details > > of the transform? > > I for one would be interested in trying it out! > > Don > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-public@setileague.org [mailto:owner-public@setileague.org]On > > Behalf Of brmoret@tin.it > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:33 PM > > To: bioastro@setileague.org > > Cc: public@setileague.org > > Subject: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! > > > > > > Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! > > > > FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!! > > > > Innovative SETI using the KLT! > > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577 > > > > > > Comments? > > > > > > Dark & clear skies from Italy! > > > > > > Bruno Moretti IK2WQA > > SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi > > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233 > > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html > > IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ > > > > > > > > > --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_8703_1094143793_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Speaking as a Seti enthusiast, with no particular background or understanding of the math involved in calculating KLT's etc.....I would say that if using KLT's are useful to seti, even though KLT's are computationally intense, we may want to consider laying the ground work for their use.  The crunch power of your average desktop PC continues to grow at a rate that is nothing less than incredible.  Both Intel and AMD are already showing off dual processor cpu's.  (not to mention 64 bit processors)  I would venture to say that the computational power required to use KLT's may be close at hand.

Regards,

Allan

FM17dk

 

-------------- Original message --------------

>
> I have a description of the algorithm at home, I'll see if I can find it.
> The main problem with it is that it is very computationally intensive and
> doesn't scale well. IIRC the number of computations on a dataset N goes
> up at N*N instead of N*log N.
>
> 73,
> Daniel Fox
> KF9ET
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Don Latham wrote:
>
> > Sure. The KLT is referred to but not described. Where can we get the details
> > of the transform?
> > I for one would be interested in trying it out!
> > Don
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-public@setileague.org [mailto:owner-public@setileague.org]On
> > Behalf Of brmoret@tin.it
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:33 PM
> > To: bioastro@setileague.org
> > Cc: public@se! tileague.org
> > Subject: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting!
> >
> >
> > Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting!
> >
> > FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!!
> >
> > Innovative SETI using the KLT!
> > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577
> >
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> >
> > Dark & clear skies from Italy!
> >
> >
> > Bruno Moretti IK2WQA
> > SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi
> > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233
> > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html
> > IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_8703_1094143793_0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 10:41:29 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82HfRUL005178 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id MAA15926 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:58:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav15.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.119]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15922; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:57:26 -0700 Received: from 63.159.120.69 by bay4-dav15.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:57:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.120.69] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: Here is a good example of embedded communications lasting centuries Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:57:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0237_01C490EC.670021C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:57:28 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 16:57:26.0973 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECFB96D0:01C4910D] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0237_01C490EC.670021C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://lava.nationalgeographic.com/cgi-bin/pod/PhotoOfTheDay.cgi?month=3D= 08&day=3D22&year=3D04 ------=_NextPart_000_0237_01C490EC.670021C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://lava.nationalgeographic.com= /cgi-bin/pod/PhotoOfTheDay.cgi?month=3D08&day=3D22&year=3D04<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_000_0237_01C490EC.670021C0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 10:46:57 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82HktUL030273 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id NAA16456 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:16:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav22.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.52]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16452; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:15:48 -0700 Received: from 63.159.120.69 by bay4-dav22.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 17:15:47 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.120.69] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: Fw: The mysterious signals from light years away Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:15:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02A7_01C490EE.F5FB2670" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:15:47 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 17:15:48.0080 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D4B2F00:01C49110] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02A7_01C490EE.F5FB2670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: newsletter@newscientist.com=20 Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 1:14 PM Subject: The mysterious signals from light years away NewScientist.com newsletter, 2 September 2004 welcome to the New Scientist newsletter, which this=20 week uncovers the best candidate yet for first contact by=20 intelligent aliens, the bizarre animal behaviour triggered by=20 pollution and how bending sound the "wrong" way could sharpen=20 ultrasound scans. If you would prefer to receive an HTML version of this newsletter,=20 please visit:=20 http://www.prq0.com/quickstart/survey.asp?e=3DXbcajfijDE-RaA&oid=3DUcjjbC= B EDITOR'S CHOICE:=20 ALIEN CANDIDATE Astronomers involved in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence=20 (SETI) have found an unexplained radio signal. This signal, now seen=20 on three separate occasions, is an enigma. It could be generated by=20 a previously unknown astronomical phenomenon. Or it could be=20 something much more mundane, maybe an artefact of the telescope=20 itself. But it also happens to be the best candidate yet for a=20 contact by intelligent aliens.MORE http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996341 TOP STORIES: US plans portable nuclear power plants=20 Sealed, portable reactors could solve developing countries' power=20 problems, but fears persist over misuse of nuclear material=20 http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996344 Pollution triggers bizarre behaviour in animals Pollution is doing greater, wider-ranging damage to animal behaviour=20 than previously realised, say two major analyses http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996343=20 Bending sound the 'wrong' way sharpens scans Researchers have achieved the negative refraction of sound - it=20 could lead to dramatic improvements in ultrasound scanners http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996345 Robots invade the table football pitch Take a foosball table, some high-torque motors, an electronic=20 control system and a person with no friends - and let play commence http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996346 Holidays in space are on the horizon Would-be space tourists and hoteliers are hoping to reap the=20 benefits of commercial space flight, which is closer than ever http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996347 Intergalactic messages 'in a bottle' are best For interstellar communication, it seems that using radio is an=20 inefficient alternative to sending a postcard http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996341 Two new rocky 'super Earths' found The discoveries may herald a new class of planet outside our Solar=20 System - making the hunt for Earth-like planets more hopeful http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996348 Egyptian mummy 'unwrapped' by modern scanning An ancient Egyptian mummy, his bandages untouched, is revealed using=20 the latest scanning and modelling techniques http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996340 Annual CT scans boost cancer risk One scan produces radiation equivalent to that received by some=20 Hiroshima survivors - younger patients are most at risk http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996339 Cloning from the dead claim attacked A researcher's claim to have cloned human-cow hybrid embryos from=20 dead people is met with scepticism and revulsion http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996338 Single gene removes sex differences in mice brains Significant structural differences in male and female brains may=20 result from selective cell death orchestrated by just one gene http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996337 AND FINALLY... Is it safe to eat old potatoes that are turning green, asks this=20 week's Last Word? And find out why the potato might be banned by if=20 it were introduced to Europe today... MORE http://www.newscientist.com/lastword/article.jsp?id=3Dlw1105 THIS WEEK'S PRINT EDITION: To subscribe to New Scientist magazine go to:=20 http://www.qssa.co.uk/new_scientist/default.asp?promcode=3D1841 FEATURES=20 THE MYSTERIES OF LIFE The 10 biggest questions of the living world, and the best answers=20 that we have today HARVESTING HEAT Convert the waste heat from your car or computer into free=20 electricity HALF THE UNIVERSE IS MISSING How come all the antimatter vanished after the big bang, and we are=20 here instead? NEWS The diet that really works The physics of tenpin bowling More than one way to live longer To subscribe to New Scientist magazine go to:=20 http://www.qssa.co.uk/new_scientist/default.asp?promcode=3D1841 ------=_NextPart_000_02A7_01C490EE.F5FB2670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

NewScientist.com newsletter, 2 September = 2004

welcome to=20 the New Scientist newsletter, which this
week uncovers the best = candidate=20 yet for first contact by
intelligent aliens, the bizarre animal = behaviour=20 triggered by
pollution and how bending sound the "wrong" way could = sharpen=20
ultrasound scans.

If you would prefer to receive an HTML = version of=20 this newsletter,
please visit:
http://www.prq0.com/quickstart/survey.asp?e=3DXbcajfijDE-R= aA&oid=3DUcjjbCB

EDITOR'S=20 CHOICE:
ALIEN CANDIDATE
Astronomers involved in the search for=20 extraterrestrial intelligence
(SETI) have found an unexplained radio = signal.=20 This signal, now seen
on three separate occasions, is an enigma. It = could be=20 generated by
a previously unknown astronomical phenomenon. Or it = could be=20
something much more mundane, maybe an artefact of the telescope =
itself.=20 But it also happens to be the best candidate yet for a
contact by=20 intelligent aliens.MORE
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996341

TOP=20 STORIES:
US plans portable nuclear power plants
Sealed, portable = reactors=20 could solve developing countries' power
problems, but fears persist = over=20 misuse of nuclear material
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996344

Pollution = triggers bizarre behaviour in animals
Pollution is doing greater,=20 wider-ranging damage to animal behaviour
than previously realised, = say two=20 major analyses
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996343=20

Bending sound the 'wrong' way sharpens scans
Researchers have = achieved the negative refraction of sound - it
could lead to = dramatic=20 improvements in ultrasound scanners
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996345

Robots=20 invade the table football pitch
Take a foosball table, some = high-torque=20 motors, an electronic
control system and a person with no friends - = and let=20 play commence
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996346

Holidays=20 in space are on the horizon
Would-be space tourists and hoteliers are = hoping=20 to reap the
benefits of commercial space flight, which is closer = than=20 ever
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996347

Intergalac= tic=20 messages 'in a bottle' are best
For interstellar communication, it = seems that=20 using radio is an
inefficient alternative to sending a = postcard
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996341

Two=20 new rocky 'super Earths' found
The discoveries may herald a new class = of=20 planet outside our Solar
System - making the hunt for Earth-like = planets=20 more hopeful
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996348

Egyptian=20 mummy 'unwrapped' by modern scanning
An ancient Egyptian mummy, his = bandages=20 untouched, is revealed using
the latest scanning and modelling=20 techniques
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996340

Annual=20 CT scans boost cancer risk
One scan produces radiation equivalent to = that=20 received by some
Hiroshima survivors - younger patients are most at=20 risk
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996339

Cloning=20 from the dead claim attacked
A researcher's claim to have cloned = human-cow=20 hybrid embryos from
dead people is met with scepticism and = revulsion
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996338

Single=20 gene removes sex differences in mice brains
Significant structural=20 differences in male and female brains may
result from selective cell = death=20 orchestrated by just one gene
http:/= /www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99996337

AND=20 FINALLY...
Is it safe to eat old potatoes that are turning green, = asks this=20
week's Last Word? And find out why the potato might be banned by if =
it=20 were introduced to Europe today... MORE
htt= p://www.newscientist.com/lastword/article.jsp?id=3Dlw1105

THIS= =20 WEEK'S PRINT EDITION:
To subscribe to New Scientist magazine go to: =
= http://www.qssa.co.uk/new_scientist/default.asp?promcode=3D1841
FEATURES=20
THE MYSTERIES OF LIFE
The 10 biggest questions of the living = world, and=20 the best answers
that we have today

HARVESTING = HEAT
Convert the=20 waste heat from your car or computer into free =
electricity

HALF THE=20 UNIVERSE IS MISSING
How come all the antimatter vanished after the = big bang,=20 and we are
here instead?

NEWS
The diet that really = works
The=20 physics of tenpin bowling
More than one way to live longer

To=20 subscribe to New Scientist magazine go to:
= http://www.qssa.co.uk/new_scientist/default.asp?promcode=3D1841
------=_NextPart_000_02A7_01C490EE.F5FB2670-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 11:06:37 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82I6XUL006626 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id NAA16724 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:26:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from web81709.mail.yahoo.com (web81709.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.140]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16717 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20040902172545.3058.qmail@web81709.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [130.132.89.165] by web81709.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 10:25:45 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:25:45 -0700 (PDT) From: David Ocame Subject: Re: SETI bioastro: RE: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! To: bioastro@setileague.org, public@setileague.org In-Reply-To: <090220041649.8703.41374F2F000D3737000021FF2200761438C7CB9C02070D0D019D@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk Hello? Testing? I don't think my emails are getting through on the lists for some reason. In case they're working now: KLT was discussed at SETICon04. Dan is quite right. KLT is very intensive computationally. It could be more than a decade (my guess) before desktop COTS are available that can handle the routines. I don't know the math either, but this was the consensus at the conference. Dave Ocame --- robbins49@comcast.net wrote: > Speaking as a Seti enthusiast, with no particular > background or understanding of the math involved in > calculating KLT's etc.....I would say that if using > KLT's are useful to seti, even though KLT's are > computationally intense, we may want to consider > laying the ground work for their use. The crunch > power of your average desktop PC continues to grow > at a rate that is nothing less than incredible. > Both Intel and AMD are already showing off dual > processor cpu's. (not to mention 64 bit processors) > I would venture to say that the computational power > required to use KLT's may be close at hand. > Regards, > Allan > FM17dk > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > I have a description of the algorithm at home, > I'll see if I can find it. > > The main problem with it is that it is very > computationally intensive and > > doesn't scale well. IIRC the number of > computations on a dataset N goes > > up at N*N instead of N*log N. > > > > 73, > > Daniel Fox > > KF9ET > > > > > > On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Don Latham wrote: > > > > > Sure. The KLT is referred to but not described. > Where can we get the details > > > of the transform? > > > I for one would be interested in trying it out! > > > Don > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-public@setileague.org > [mailto:owner-public@setileague.org]On > > > Behalf Of brmoret@tin.it > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:33 PM > > > To: bioastro@setileague.org > > > Cc: public@setileague.org > > > Subject: SETI public: Old Lady SETI@home, it's > time for lifting! > > > > > > > > > Old Lady SETI@home, it's time for lifting! > > > > > > FFT Fast Fourier Transform = SETI's Stone Age!!! > > > > > > > Innovative SETI using the KLT! > > > > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3577 > > > > > > > > > > Comments? > > > > > > > > > Dark & clear skies from Italy! > > > > > > > > > Bruno Moretti IK2WQA > > > SETI ITALIA Team G. Cocconi > > > > http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30233 > > > > > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_7422.html > > > > IARA http://www.iaragroup.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== *********************************** *********************************** Dave Ocame, N1YVV East Shore Park Observatory FN31ng -72.53856 longitude 41.16797 latitude From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 11:26:36 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82IQYUL012262 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id NAA17461 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:57:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav29.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.59]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17457; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:57:08 -0700 Received: from 63.159.120.69 by bay4-dav29.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 17:57:08 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.120.69] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" , "europa" , "fpspace" Subject: SETI public: Rose's Web site Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:57:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0380_01C490F4.BD3F51C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:57:09 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 17:57:08.0706 (UTC) FILETIME=[43DCAC20:01C49116] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0380_01C490F4.BD3F51C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is Christopher Rose's Web site complete with versions of his = article on the subject: http://www.winlab.rutgers.edu/%7Ecrose/cgi-bin/cosmicB.html Larry ------=_NextPart_000_0380_01C490F4.BD3F51C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Here is Christopher Rose's Web site complete with versions of his = article=20 on the subject:
 
 
Larry
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0380_01C490F4.BD3F51C0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Sep 2 11:44:05 2004 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i82Ii3UL028075 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) id OAA17665 for public-list; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:06:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav32.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.62]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419+JAGae58098)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17661; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:05:46 -0700 Received: from 63.159.120.69 by bay4-dav32.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:05:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.159.120.69] X-Originating-Email: [ljk4@msn.com] X-Sender: ljk4@msn.com From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" , "europa" Subject: SETI public: A response to Rose and White's paper Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:05:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0392_01C490F5.F1032940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:05:45 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2004 18:05:46.0158 (UTC) FILETIME=[784994E0:01C49117] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0392_01C490F5.F1032940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.habitablezone.com/space/messages/341551.html . . within the next million years -- stick to radio.=20 Rose's paper is = here, which I = found on his = website. Discussion in the press (links at Rose's website, including an article = in the NYT Science section by Dennis Overbye, one of my favorite = popularizers of astronomy) makes repeated analogy to Clarke's monoliths = in 2001: A Space Odyssey, yet fans of the film and book will recall = that, as a communication device, the one on the Moon relied on an = extradimensional energy burst to alert its constructors to its discovery = (which also "bled" into the EM spectrum in our spacetime). Thse quotes are sequential (i.e., not cherry-picked), from the final = paragraph of the paper's conclusion: Finally, for such long range channels, we have skirted the issue of = what sort of messages one might want to send, how they might be detected = or where they might be sent [28], [29]. The large delays associated with = interstellar travel and the seeming fragility of species to cosmic = insults suggests that an intelligent sender might construct messages = ?for posterity? as opposed to for initiating a chat. That's an awful lot of skirting. I haven't read the entire paper yet, = but I have the impression that Rose's energy efficiency calculations are = a little too simplistic. Over his example of a milion years' travel time = to cover a 1000 l.y. distance, the proper motions of both originating = and target stars will have a large influence. This creates problems of = propulsion and guidance (including mid-course corrections), and the = service life of the control systems. On the other hand -- the "Voyager Record" is a perfect example -- is the = concept of sending information packages Out There, and maybe someone = will find them ... rather like finding, not a needle, but a single atom = of platinum in a haystack. What seems most critical to me is what (elsewhere in the paper) Rose = terms "hardening". Unfortunately for me, his reference [19], discussing = theoretical limits of the information density on inscribed matter is = unavailable (until I go to the library, since I don't have a = subscription to Science). Nonetheless, it's fair to consider that the = smaller each bit of information, the less energy required to alter it. = Rose mentions RNA as a particularlt dense method of encoding -- now = consider how that might be subject to 'mutation' over a million years, = even to such low-probability events as neutrino interaction, which = cannot be shielded against, let alone cosmic rays and the occasional = gamma ray burst. One might also think of ?colonization? as a goal as well [30]. In both = regards, one ostensible virtue of inscribed mass channels is that once = the message arrives, it is persistent as compared to electromagnetic = radiation which is transient and thus must be sent repeatedly in order = to assure reception. "One the message arrives" - implying either [a] more propulsion and = autonomous controls to place it in orbit around the target star (or a = planet), or [b] propulsion, controls, decision algorithms to select a = planet upon which to land, and a means of making that landing = mechanically survivable. The "persistence" of such encoded information = now possibly includes exposure to atmospheric phenomena after a = million-year journey through interstellar space -- assuming the package = isn't damaged in the process of delivery. Then there's the decoding process. The Voyager Record has pictorial = instructions engraved on its casing. How might one render a similarly = simple 'manual' for decoding RNA? Of course, constructing mass packets to be hearty, easily detected = and/or self replicative seems well outside our current engineering ken. = Nonetheless, the notion of mass packet delivery, undertaken initially to = examine assumptions about energy tradeoffs in terrestrial = communications, does raise interesting questions about terrestrial = biological history and perhaps SETI/xenobiological studies as well. That's a little too far-fetched, even for me. But, I think his class had a lot of fun with this.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0392_01C490F5.F1032940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable