From owner-public@setileague.org Tue Dec 3 20:22:47 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB44Mjcv025104; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id TAA14569 for public-list; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:21:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14565 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:21:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from 1cust3.tnt1.loyalsock.pa.da.uu.net ([67.202.252.131] helo=office) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18J0oM-0005Tf-00 for public@setileague.org; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:21:14 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20021202191545.01443428@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: drseti@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 19:15:45 -0500 To: public@setileague.org From: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" Subject: SETI public: test Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk Testing list -- please disregard. -------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, FBIS, FRCA Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555 Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 n6tx@setileague.org www.setileague.org Project Argus station FN11LH "We Know We're Not Alone!" From owner-public@setileague.org Tue Dec 3 20:25:03 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB44P1cv006977; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:25:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id KAA03679 for public-list; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:02:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe147.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.140]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03675; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:02:16 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.54] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: Are Aliens a Bunch of Smarty Pants? Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:01:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C299E9.D4E21050" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2002 15:02:16.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD85CF70:01C29A13] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C299E9.D4E21050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are Aliens a Bunch of Smarty-Pants? (Date: 2002-12-02 00:02:56) Topic: Extrasolar Life URL: http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=3Dmodload&name=3DNews&fi= le=3Darticle&sid=3D323 You can read interesting articles on Astrobiology Magazine http://www.astrobio.net/news/ ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C299E9.D4E21050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Are Aliens a B= unch of Smarty-Pants?
(Date: 2002-12-02 00:02:56)
Topic: Extrasolar Life
You c= an read interesting articles on Astrobiology Magazine
http://www.astro= bio.net/news/
------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C299E9.D4E21050-- From owner-public@setileague.org Tue Dec 3 20:26:49 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB44Qmcv014133; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id UAA17147 for public-list; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:00:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe121.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.114]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17143; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:59:51 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.88] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: How fast do Jupiter-like planets form? Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:59:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C29974.284DD240" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2002 00:59:51.0957 (UTC) FILETIME=[1EBFE450:01C2999E] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C29974.284DD240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" JUPITER-LIKE PLANETS FORMED FASTER THAN THOUGHT ----------------------------------------------- An accepted assumption in astrophysics holds that it takes more than 1 million years for gas giant planets such as Jupiter and Saturn to form from the cosmic debris circling a young star. But new research suggests such planets form in a dramatically shorter period, as little as a few hundred years. http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0211/29planets/ ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C29974.284DD240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
JUPITER-LIKE P= LANETS FORMED FASTER THAN THOUGHT
------------------------------------= -----------
An accepted assumption in astrophysics holds t= hat it takes more than
1 million years for gas giant planets such as = Jupiter and Saturn to
form from the cosmic debris circling a young st= ar. But new research
suggests such planets form in a dramatically sho= rter period, as
little as a few hundred years.

  &nb= sp; http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0211/29planets/


------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C29974.284DD240-- From owner-public@setileague.org Tue Dec 3 20:29:12 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB44TBcv030758; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id TAA15273 for public-list; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:55:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe32.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.32.112]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15225; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:54:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:53:37 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.102] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "BioAstro" Cc: "setipublic" Subject: SETI public: First Quantum Dots Applied to Living Organisms Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:53:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C29A3C.72D03C40" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2002 00:53:37.0501 (UTC) FILETIME=[69F830D0:01C29A66] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C29A3C.72D03C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First Quantum Dots Applied To Living Organism =20 http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9952 =20 Focus on Titan =20 http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9951 =20 No shortage of mysteries on Venus =20 http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9949 =20 Ready to Dig the Dirt on Mars =20 http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9947 =20 National and International Research Leaders Meet Dec. 1-4 =20 http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9946 =20 TODAY'S CALENDAR EVENTS =20 _______________________ =20 Meeting: CMB & Cosmology: Where Are We? =20 http://www.spaceref.com/calendar/calendar.html?pid=3D1803 =20 Meeting on Stellar Populations and Gravitational Wave Observations =20 http://www.spaceref.com/calendar/calendar.html?pid=3D1802 =20 NAC SSAC Astronomical Search for Origins and Planetary Systems Subcommitt= ee Meeting =20 http://www.spaceref.com/calendar/calendar.html?pid=3D1790 =20 _______________________________________________________________ SpaceRef is a privately held company based out of Reston, Virginia, U.S.A. Copyright SpaceRef Interactive Inc., 2002 ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C29A3C.72D03C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
First Quantum = Dots Applied To Living Organism
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D= 9952

Focus on Titan
http://www.spaceref.com/n= ews/viewpr.html?pid=3D9951

No shortage of mysteries on Venus
= http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9949

Ready to Dig = the Dirt on Mars
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9947 =

National and International Research Leaders Meet Dec. 1-4
htt= p://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9946


TODAY'S CALE= NDAR EVENTS
_______________________

Meeting: CMB & Cosmol= ogy: Where Are We?
http://www.spaceref.com/calendar/calendar.html?pid= =3D1803

Meeting on Stellar Populations and Gravitational Wave Obs= ervations
http://www.spaceref.com/calendar/calendar.html?pid=3D1802 <= BR>
NAC SSAC Astronomical Search for Origins and Planetary Systems Sub= committee Meeting
http://www.spaceref.com/calendar/calendar.html?pid=3D= 1790


________________________________________________________= _______
SpaceRef is a privately held company
based out of Reston, V= irginia, U.S.A.
Copyright SpaceRef Interactive Inc., 2002
------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C29A3C.72D03C40-- From owner-public@setileague.org Tue Dec 3 20:37:46 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB44bicv027430; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id UAA17348 for public-list; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:10:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe138.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.131]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17336; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:09:44 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.88] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "BioAstro" Cc: "setipublic" Subject: SETI public: Fw: Venus and Mars converge near the Moon Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:09:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C29975.8AEE6DA0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2002 01:09:44.0405 (UTC) FILETIME=[7FE04850:01C2999F] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C29975.8AEE6DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: SpaceWeather.com Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 1:56 AM To: SpaceWeather.com Subject: Venus and Mars converge near the Moon Space Weather News for Nov. 30, 2002 http://www.spaceweather.com PLANETS CONVERGE: Don't miss this. Just before dawn on Sunday, Dec. 1st, the planets Venus and Mars will converge with the slender crescent Moon. The trio will fit within a circle 1.5 degrees in diameter. Northern hemisphere observers should look toward the eastern horizon around 5:30 a.m. local time. Venus will be dazzling, about 350 times brighter than nearby red Mars. Can you see a ghostly glow across the crescent Moon's dark terrain? Astronomers call that "Earthshine"--it's one of the loveliest sights in the sky. Visit spaceweather.com for a sky map of the gathering and for details about possible auroras on Dec. 1st and 2nd. --- You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: ljk4@msn.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-828536P@snglist.m= sfc.nasa.gov ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C29975.8AEE6DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
<= DIV> 
=
----- Original Message -----
From: SpaceWeather.com
Sent: Sat= urday, November 30, 2002 1:56 AM
To: SpaceWeather.com
Subjec= t: Venus and Mars converge near the Moon
 
Space= Weather News for Nov. 30, 2002
http://www.spaceweather.com

PLA= NETS CONVERGE: Don't miss this. Just before dawn on Sunday, Dec. 1st,
= the planets Venus and Mars will converge with the slender crescent Moon.<= BR>The trio will fit within a circle 1.5 degrees in diameter. Northernhemisphere observers should look toward the eastern horizon around 5:30<= BR>a.m. local time. Venus will be dazzling, about 350 times brighter than=
nearby red Mars. Can you see a ghostly glow across the crescent Moon'= s
dark terrain? Astronomers call that "Earthshine"--it's one of theloveliest sights in the sky.

Visit spaceweather.com for a sky map= of the gathering and for details
about possible auroras on Dec. 1st a= nd 2nd.

---
You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: lj= k4@msn.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-828= 536P@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov
------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C29975.8AEE6DA0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Tue Dec 3 21:00:14 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB450Dcv002890; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id XAA04748 for public-list; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:49:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe83.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.225]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04744; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:49:21 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.23] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: Fw: Space-Weather-Outlook Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:48:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01C29B26.8952E950" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2002 04:49:21.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[8313B130:01C29B50] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C29B26.8952E950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: Space Environment Center Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 1:36 PM To: advisory-list-send@dawn.sec.noaa.gov Subject: Space-Weather-Outlook Official Space Weather Advisory issued by NOAA Space Environment Center Boulder, Colorado, USA SPACE WEATHER ADVISORY OUTLOOK #02- 49 2002 December 03 at 10:40 a.m. MST (2002 December 03 1740 UTC) **** SPACE WEATHER OUTLOOK **** Summary For November 25-December 1 Space weather reached minor levels during the last week. A category G1(minor) geomagnetic storm occurred on November 26th. The cause of this minor storm was a large solar filament erupting off the surface of the sun on November 24th. This filament eruption produced a shock wave that interacted with the Earth=12s magnetic field resulting in the minor geomagnetic storm. For a list of adverse system effects related to space weather storms, please refer to the NOAA Space Weather Scales. Outlook For December 4-10 Space weather is expected to be at minor levels. Category R1 (minor) radio blackouts are possible during the week. Data used to provide space weather services are contributed by NOAA, =20 USAF, NASA, NSF, USGS, the International Space Environment Services =20 and other observatories, universities, and institutions. For more =20 information, including email services, see SEC's Space Weather =20 Advisories Web site http://sec.noaa.gov/advisories or (303) 497-5127. The NOAA Public Affairs contact is Barbara McGehan at =20 Barbara.McGehan@noaa.gov or (303) 497-6288. ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C29B26.8952E950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
<= DIV> 
=
----- Original Message -----
From: Space Environment Center
Sent:= Tuesday, December 03, 2002 1:36 PM
To: advisory-list-send@dawn.sec.noaa.gov
Subject: Space-Weather-Outlook
 =
Official Space Weather Advisory issued by NOAA Space Environment Ce= nter
Boulder, Colorado, USA

SPACE WEATHER ADVISORY OUTLOOK #02-= 49
2002 December 03 at 10:40 a.m. MST (2002 December 03 1740 UTC)
=
**** SPACE WEATHER OUTLOOK ****

Summary For November 25-Decemb= er 1
Space weather reached minor levels during the last week.  A = category
G1(minor) geomagnetic storm occurred on November 26th.  = The cause of
this minor storm was a large solar filament erupting off = the surface of
the sun on November 24th.  This filament eruption = produced a shock wave
that interacted with the Earth=12s magnetic fiel= d resulting in the minor
geomagnetic storm. For a list of adverse syst= em effects related to
space weather storms, please refer to the NOAA S= pace Weather Scales.

Outlook For December 4-10
Space weather is= expected to be at minor levels.  Category R1 (minor)
radio black= outs are possible during the week.

Data used to provide space weat= her services are contributed by NOAA,
USAF, NASA, NSF, USGS, the Inte= rnational Space Environment Services
and other observatories, univers= ities, and institutions. For more
information, including email servic= es, see SEC's Space Weather
Advisories Web site http://sec.noaa.gov/a= dvisories or (303) 497-5127.
The NOAA Public Affairs contact is Barbar= a McGehan at
Barbara.McGehan@noaa.gov or (303) 497-6288.
------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C29B26.8952E950-- From owner-public@setileague.org Tue Dec 3 21:27:02 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB45R1cv010506; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:27:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id AAA05314 for public-list; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:16:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe138.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.131]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05309; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:16:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:15:51 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.23] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: Fw: Hubble Makes Precise Measure of Extrasolar World's True Mass Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:15:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C29B2A.399764F0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2002 05:15:51.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[368A59F0:01C29B54] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C29B2A.399764F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Baalke Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 1:43 PM To: ljk4@msn.com Subject: Hubble Makes Precise Measure of Extrasolar World's True Mass FOR RELEASE: December 3, 2002 CONTACT: Ray Villard Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, MD (Phone: 410/338-4514; E-mail: villard@stsci.edu) Rebecca Johnson University of Texas, Austin, TX (Phone: 512-475-6763; E-mail: rjohnson@astro.as.utexas.edu) PRESS RELEASE NO.: STScI-PR02-27 HUBBLE MAKES PRECISE MEASURE OF EXTRASOLAR WORLD'S TRUE MASS An international team of astronomers used the NASA Hubble Space Telescope to help make a precise measurement of the mass of a planet outside our solar system. The Hubble results show that the planet is 1.89 to 2.4 times as massive as Jupiter, our solar system's largest orbiting body. Previous estimates, about which there are some uncertainties, place the planet's mass at a much wider range: between 1.9 and 100 times that of Jupiter's. The planet, called Gliese 876b, orbits the star Gliese 876. It is only the second planet outside our solar system for which astronomers have determined a precise mass. The observations were made by George F. Benedict and Barbara McArthur (University of Texas at Austin), members of the international observing team led by Thierry Forveille (Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope Corporation, Hawaii and Grenoble Observatory, France). The results are being published in the December 20 issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters. Gl 876b is the more distant of two planets orbiting Gliese 876. It was originally discovered by two groups, led by Xavier Delfosse (Geneva/Grenoble Observatory) and Geoffrey Marcy (U.C. Berkeley and San Francisco State University). To see and read more about Gliese 876b, please click on http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/2002/27 http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/latest.html http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pictures.html http://hubblesite.org/go/news The Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI) is operated by the Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy, Inc. (AURA), for NASA, under contract with the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD. The Hubble Space Telescope is a project of international cooperation between NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA). ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C29B2A.399764F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
<= DIV> 
=
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Baalke
Sent: Tuesday, = December 03, 2002 1:43 PM
To: ljk4@msn.com
Subject: Hubb= le Makes Precise Measure of Extrasolar World's True Mass
 = ;
FOR RELEASE: December 3, 2002

CONTACT:
Ray Villard
Sp= ace Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, MD
(Phone: 410/338-4514; E= -mail: villard@stsci.edu)

Rebecca Johnson
University of Texas, = Austin, TX
(Phone: 512-475-6763; E-mail: rjohnson@astro.as.utexas.edu)=

PRESS RELEASE NO.: STScI-PR02-27

HUBBLE MAKES PRECISE MEAS= URE OF EXTRASOLAR WORLD'S TRUE MASS

An international team of astro= nomers used the NASA Hubble Space
Telescope to help make a precise mea= surement of the mass of a planet
outside our solar system. The Hubble = results show that the planet is
1.89 to 2.4 times as massive as Jupite= r, our solar system's largest
orbiting body. Previous estimates, about= which there are some
uncertainties, place the planet's mass at a much= wider range: between
1.9 and 100 times that of Jupiter's. The planet,= called Gliese 876b,
orbits the star Gliese 876. It is only the second= planet outside our
solar system for which astronomers have determined= a precise mass.

The observations were made by George F. Benedict = and Barbara McArthur
(University of Texas at Austin), members of the i= nternational observing
team led by Thierry Forveille (Canada-France-Ha= waii Telescope
Corporation, Hawaii and Grenoble Observatory, France). = The results are
being published in the December 20 issue of Astrophysi= cal Journal
Letters.

Gl 876b is the more distant of two planets= orbiting Gliese 876. It was
originally discovered by two groups, led = by Xavier Delfosse
(Geneva/Grenoble Observatory) and Geoffrey Marcy (U= .C. Berkeley and San
Francisco State University).

To see and re= ad more about Gliese 876b, please click on
http://oposite.stsci.edu/pu= binfo/pr/2002/27
http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/latest.html
http:= //oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pictures.html
http://hubblesite.org/go/new= s

The Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI) is operated by
= the Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy,
Inc. (AURA)= , for NASA, under contract with the Goddard Space
Flight Center, Green= belt, MD. The Hubble Space Telescope is a
project of international coo= peration between NASA and the
European Space Agency (ESA).


=
------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C29B2A.399764F0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Tue Dec 3 21:55:36 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB45tYcv025848; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id AAA05846 for public-list; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:39:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe65.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.207]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05842; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:39:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:38:29 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.23] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: LIFE SAFE FROM SUPERNOVAS? Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:37:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C29B2D.651231C0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2002 05:38:29.0628 (UTC) FILETIME=[60158BC0:01C29B57] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C29B2D.651231C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LIFE SAFE FROM SUPERNOVAS? >From Andrew Yee [Extracted from inScight, Academic Press http://www.academicpress.com/inscight/11262002/grapha.htm] Tuesday, 26 November 2002, 5 pm PST Life Safe from Supernovas? By ROBERT IRION Space is full of threats to life, especially asteroids that smack into Earth. An even more explosive hazard looms in deep space: supernovas, whi= ch can unleash enough radiation to zap our life-shielding ozone layer. Howev= er, a new study, accepted for publication in the Astrophysical Journal, concludes that a supernova must blow up within 25 light-years of Earth to wreak major havoc -- so close that it might happen just once or twice in = a billion years. In 1974, the risk seemed higher. Physicist Malvin Ruderman of Columbia University in New York City calculated that gamma rays and cosmic rays fr= om a supernova about 50 light-years away would erase most of our ozone for decades, exposing Earth's surface to harmful ultraviolet (UV) light from the sun. Since then, researchers have debated how much radiation supernovas produce, how those rays damage the atmosphere, and how often stars explode near our sun. The latter estimates are "all over the map," says astrophysicist Neil Gehrels of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. Some teams have claimed that recent supernovas -- perhaps within the last few million years -- devastated life. That's unlikely, according to work by Gehrels and his colleagues. The tea= m used a detailed model of the atmosphere to gauge how nitrogen oxides -- a chemical species catalyzed by a supernova's radiation -- would destroy ozone. The researchers also used the energy from Supernova 1987A, which exploded in another galaxy in 1987, as a guide for how much radiation wou= ld reach Earth. The results are good news for Earthlings: In order to thin t= he ozone layer so that twice as much UV light reaches the surface, a star must explode within 25 light-years. There are no massive stars -- the ones tha= t die as supernovas -- that close to the Earth today. Moreover, these stars approach our solar system so seldom that a nearby supernova should happen only every 700 million years or so, on average, according to the team's analysis of stellar motions in the galaxy, making them minor contributors= to the history of mass extinctions on earth. The study surpasses other attempts to quantify the effects of supernovas = on Earth's atmosphere, says astronomer John Scalo of the University of Texas= , Austin. "Their result depends sensitively on many things, but it's the be= st we have right now," he says. Lower-level radiation from more distant supernovas still might have triggered episodes of genetic mutation hundre= ds or thousands of times during Earth's history, Scalo notes. =A9 2002 The American Association for the Advancement of Science =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D (10) MARTIAN METEORITE PATROL PICKS ONE UP >From John Michael Williams Hi Benny. > CCNet 139/2002 - 27 November 2002 > --------------------------------- > (3) MARTIAN METEORITES MADE EASY > >From Sky & Telescope, 25 November 2002 > http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article_803_1.asp > =20 > By J. Kelly Beatty > ... > After much number crunching, however, impact =20 > modelers eventually deduced > that it could be done - if the impact event were =20 > powerful enough to leave > behind a crater at least 10 km across. ... This is a reckless claim. The SIZE of the impact means nothing in terms o= f whether there is time in an impact to accelerate a rock without destroyin= g it. The reason no intact rock can be ejected by an impact is because of the properties of rock, not because of the properties of impacts. From a body with a lower escape speed (say, the Moon), or for rocks which could condu= ct sound at higher speed (say, 8 km/s), intact ejection MIGHT occur, depending on the calculated effects of the impact. So far as I know, there is one exception: An impact which destroyed the target, thus also lowering its gravitational field near the "ejection" region. Remove the planet from the rock. The whole issue of rock and sound speed as a parameter is explained in http://publish.aps.org/eprint/gateway/eplist/aps1999jun25_002 One would wish that the kind of computation reported were directed toward more constructive effort, such as epidemiology or antiterrorism, or the design of missiles which could hit their target. We read, at the Sky and Telescope link: > ... > James N. Head (Raytheon Missile Systems), who performed > the computer modeling for his doctoral thesis at the University > of Arizona, also managed to solve another Martian-meteorite > quandary. Most of these stones crystallized within the last few > hundred million years, ... The key, as Head and his > colleagues explain, is that the meteorites must have originally > been buried in the layer of regolith, ... Whence the need for a bigger impact. But, the simpler explanation would b= e that the "Martian meteorites" formed in space after ejection in a fluid state. Or, perhaps, the crystallization date also might be wrong, and the origin of the "Martian meteorites" might have nothing to do with the mode= rn planet Mars. -- =20 John jwill@AstraGate.net John Michael Williams ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C29B2D.651231C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
LIFE SAFE FROM= SUPERNOVAS?

From Andrew Yee <ayee@nova.astro.utoronto.ca>
[Extracted from inScight, Academic Press
http://www.academicpres= s.com/inscight/11262002/grapha.htm]

Tuesday, 26 November 2002, 5 p= m PST

Life Safe from Supernovas?
By ROBERT IRION

Space i= s full of threats to life, especially asteroids that smack into
Earth.= An even more explosive hazard looms in deep space: supernovas, which
= can unleash enough radiation to zap our life-shielding ozone layer. Howev= er,
a new study, accepted for publication in the Astrophysical Journal= ,
concludes that a supernova must blow up within 25 light-years of Ear= th to
wreak major havoc -- so close that it might happen just once or = twice in a
billion years.

In 1974, the risk seemed higher. Phys= icist Malvin Ruderman of Columbia
University in New York City calculat= ed that gamma rays and cosmic rays from
a supernova about 50 light-yea= rs away would erase most of our ozone for
decades, exposing Earth's su= rface to harmful ultraviolet (UV) light
from the sun. Since then, rese= archers have debated how much radiation
supernovas produce, how those = rays damage the atmosphere, and how often
stars explode near our sun. = The latter estimates are "all over the map,"
says astrophysicist Neil = Gehrels of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in
Greenbelt, Maryland. = Some teams have claimed that recent supernovas --
perhaps within the l= ast few million years -- devastated life.

That's unlikely, accordi= ng to work by Gehrels and his colleagues. The team
used a detailed mod= el of the atmosphere to gauge how nitrogen oxides -- a
chemical specie= s catalyzed by a supernova's radiation -- would destroy
ozone. The res= earchers also used the energy from Supernova 1987A, which
exploded in = another galaxy in 1987, as a guide for how much radiation would
reach = Earth. The results are good news for Earthlings: In order to thin the ozo= ne
layer so that twice as much UV light reaches the surface, a star mu= st
explode within 25 light-years. There are no massive stars -- the on= es that
die as supernovas -- that close to the Earth today. Moreover, = these stars
approach our solar system so seldom that a nearby supernov= a should happen
only every 700 million years or so, on average, accord= ing to the team's
analysis of stellar motions in the galaxy, making th= em minor contributors to
the history of mass extinctions on earth.
=
The study surpasses other attempts to quantify the effects of superno= vas on
Earth's atmosphere, says astronomer John Scalo of the Universit= y of Texas,
Austin. "Their result depends sensitively on many things, = but it's the best
we have right now," he says. Lower-level radiation f= rom more distant
supernovas still might have triggered episodes of gen= etic mutation hundreds
or thousands of times during Earth's history, S= calo notes.

=A9 2002 The American Association for the Advancement = of Science

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= BR>(10) MARTIAN METEORITE PATROL PICKS ONE UP

From John Michael Wi= lliams <jwill@AstraGate.net>

Hi Benny.

> CCNet 139= /2002 - 27 November 2002
> ---------------------------------
>= ; (3) MARTIAN METEORITES MADE EASY
> >From Sky & Telescope, = 25 November 2002
> http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article_= 803_1.asp
>
> By J. Kelly Beatty
> ...
> After m= uch number crunching, however, impact
> modelers eventually deduce= d
> that it could be done - if the impact event were
> power= ful enough to leave
> behind a crater at least 10 km across. ...
This is a reckless claim. The SIZE of the impact means nothing in te= rms of
whether there is time in an impact to accelerate a rock without= destroying
it.

The reason no intact rock can be ejected by an = impact is because of the
properties of rock, not because of the proper= ties of impacts. From a body
with a lower escape speed (say, the Moon)= , or for rocks which could conduct
sound at higher speed (say, 8 km/s)= , intact ejection MIGHT occur,
depending on the calculated effects of = the impact.

So far as I know, there is one exception: An impact wh= ich destroyed the
target, thus also lowering its gravitational field n= ear the "ejection"
region.  Remove the planet from the rock.
<= BR>The whole issue of rock and sound speed as a parameter is explained in=
http://publish.aps.org/eprint/gateway/eplist/aps1999jun25_002

= One would wish that the kind of computation reported were directed toward=
more constructive effort, such as epidemiology or antiterrorism, or t= he
design of missiles which could hit their target.

We read, at= the Sky and Telescope link:

> ...
> James N. Head (Rayth= eon Missile Systems), who performed
> the computer modeling for his= doctoral thesis at the University
> of Arizona, also managed to so= lve another Martian-meteorite
> quandary. Most of these stones crys= tallized within the last few
> hundred million years, ... The key, = as Head and his
> colleagues explain, is that the meteorites must h= ave originally
>  been buried in the layer of regolith, ...
Whence the need for a bigger impact. But, the simpler explanation wo= uld be
that the "Martian meteorites" formed in space after ejection in= a fluid
state. Or, perhaps, the crystallization date also might be wr= ong, and the
origin of the "Martian meteorites" might have nothing to = do with the modern
planet Mars.
--
    &nbs= p;            = ;        John
   &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;     jwill@AstraGate.net
    = ;            =      John Michael Williams

------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C29B2D.651231C0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 06:23:14 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5ENCcv021769; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:23:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id JAA06417 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:12:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06401; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from 1cust89.tnt3.loyalsock.pa.da.uu.net ([65.238.106.89] helo=office) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Jwj0-0002PE-00; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 06:11:34 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20021205091113.014be1d8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: drseti@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:11:13 -0500 To: n6tx@setileague.org From: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" Subject: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust Cc: rcf@setileague.org, heather@setileague.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk SETIzens, During the past eight years, though devoted hams and skilled experimenters have been building up SETI stations out of kits, surplus and scrounged materials, our numbers have grown painfully slowly. People have been insisting that, in order for us to approach our goal of all-sky coverage, it was necessary for commercial vendors to offer inexpensive, turn-key SETI systems. But major manufacturers (including Radio Shack) have declined to get involved in this endeavor, because they perceived that no mass market exists. Today I received additional evidence that they are right. Many of you will recall the Seeker 2000, a nearly-turnkey SETI package (receiver, LNA, feedhorn, cables -- just add dish and stir) introduced by Radio Astronomy Supplies about three years ago. After a year of heavy promotion, member Jeffrey Lichtman (who runs RAS) had sold exactly ONE system (to our own Hardware Committee chairman, Lee Kitchens), and decided to discontinue the product line. I can't say that I can fault that business decision. Yesterday, one of our members (in Siberia, no less!) informed me that the link from our top web-page to "Complete SETI Systems from Grove Enterprises" no longer worked. I emailed to Bob Grove to question its disappearance. This morning, he wrote to me: "Over the period of years that we carried the equipment and promoted it on our web page, we never received a single order. Without a doubt on my part, they are probably hams for the most part who are immersed so deeply into the hobby that they don't need to buy systems; they can assemble whatever's required from their own resources. But we were pleased to try the experiment and lost very little money doing it. " Nevertheless, for a couple of years, Bob had spent both time and money designing SETI packages, promoting them in his catalog and magazine advertisements, and devoting web server space to SETI equipment and The SETI League. We are grateful for his effort. But Bob is running a business, not a non-profit (that's my responsibility!) And he just can't stay in business promoting products for which there's no market. So, of course he made the logical decision, and pulled the plug. But what of all those potential SETIzens who have long said to me, "I'll build a station if someone will produce commercial equipment that I can set up without having to be (or hire) an engineer"? I conclude that they were just making excuses. If someone isn't willing to spend as much on a SETI station as families typically spend on a weekend holiday at Disneyland, I figure he or she just isn't all that interested. And since NOBODY seems willing to put his money where his mouth is, I am forced to rethink the goals of Project Argus. Chief among those goals was to accumulate 5,000 active stations around the world, so as to see in all directions at once. About six years ago, when we seemed to be making rapid progress toward that goal, I made the mistake of extrapolating, and optimistically projected full-sky coverage "by mid-2002". Well guess what, folks -- we didn't make it! Having stagnated at just over 100 stations for the past two years, I figure we've pretty much tapped out the pool of techie hobbyists -- and can't really expect significant growth until something changes. I thought that "something" was the availability of commercial turn-key systems. Apparently I was wrong. Now, I haven't a clue what that "something" might be. But I do know it's going to be necessary to redefine our objective for Project Argus. Instead of full-sky coverage, perhaps what we should be striving for is the very best science we can do with however many stations we can get. Although our 100+ radio telescopes are still more than exist in the rest of the world (combined), some of you have been saying that The SETI League is a failure, for falling short of our goal by a factor of fifty. Maybe so. For that matter, since its stated objective was to detect solid evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence, which we have not yet done in 42 years of effort, I could argue that the entire SETI enterprise is a failure. If we believe that, we'll be snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. So, where do we go from here, with few members, a handful of stations, no money, and a mangificent obsession? I'm open to your suggestions. Yours for SETI success, Paul -------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, FBIS, FRCA Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555 Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 n6tx@setileague.org www.setileague.org Project Argus station FN11LH "We Know We're Not Alone!" From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 09:16:29 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5HGRcv019563; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id LAA09123 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:56:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from adaptv.com (adaptv.com [208.223.124.11]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09119 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:56:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200212051656.LAA09119@seti1.setileague.org> Received: from WorldClient [127.0.0.1] by adaptv.com [208.223.124.11] with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.5.4.R) for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:49:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:49:52 -0500 From: "Robert J Fear" To: public@setileague.org Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust X-Mailer: WorldClient Standard 3.5.0e In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20021205091113.014be1d8@mail.earthlink.net> X-MDRemoteIP: 127.0.0.1 X-Return-Path: rjfear@adaptv.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: public@setileague.org Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk Paul and others, I cannot say that I am suprised. When the members have little to no free cash the vendors will shortly follow. Having lost a company late last year to Polaroid Corporation's filing bankruptcy (owing my ex-company tens of thousands of dollars) I am now on that list. I haven't stopped working on SETI and RA... I'm just much slower and I hope more resourceful in doing so. R.J. Fear -----Original Message----- From: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" To: n6tx@setileague.org Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:11:13 -0500 Subject: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust > SETIzens, > During the past eight years, though devoted hams and skilled > experimenters > have been building up SETI stations out of kits, surplus and scrounged > materials, our numbers have grown painfully slowly. People have been > insisting that, in order for us to approach our goal of all-sky > coverage, > it was necessary for commercial vendors to offer inexpensive, turn-key > SETI > systems. But major manufacturers (including Radio Shack) have declined > to > get involved in this endeavor, because they perceived that no mass > market > exists. Today I received additional evidence that they are right. > Many of you will recall the Seeker 2000, a nearly-turnkey SETI package > (receiver, LNA, feedhorn, cables -- just add dish and stir) introduced > by > Radio Astronomy Supplies about three years ago. After a year of heavy > promotion, member Jeffrey Lichtman (who runs RAS) had sold exactly ONE > system (to our own Hardware Committee chairman, Lee Kitchens), and > decided > to discontinue the product line. I can't say that I can fault that > business decision. > Yesterday, one of our members (in Siberia, no less!) informed me that > the > link from our top web-page to "Complete SETI Systems from Grove > Enterprises" no longer worked. I emailed to Bob Grove to question its > disappearance. This morning, he wrote to me: > "Over the period of years that we carried the equipment and promoted > it on > our web page, we never received a single order. Without a doubt on my > part, they are probably hams for the most part who are immersed so > deeply > into the hobby that they don't need to buy systems; they can assemble > whatever's required from their own resources. But we were pleased to > try > the experiment and lost very little money doing it. " > Nevertheless, for a couple of years, Bob had spent both time and money > designing SETI packages, promoting them in his catalog and magazine > advertisements, and devoting web server space to SETI equipment and The > SETI League. We are grateful for his effort. But Bob is running a > business, not a non-profit (that's my responsibility!) And he just > can't > stay in business promoting products for which there's no market. So, > of > course he made the logical decision, and pulled the plug. > But what of all those potential SETIzens who have long said to me, > "I'll > build a station if someone will produce commercial equipment that I can > set > up without having to be (or hire) an engineer"? I conclude that they > were > just making excuses. If someone isn't willing to spend as much on a > SETI > station as families typically spend on a weekend holiday at Disneyland, > I > figure he or she just isn't all that interested. And since NOBODY > seems > willing to put his money where his mouth is, I am forced to rethink the > goals of Project Argus. > Chief among those goals was to accumulate 5,000 active stations around > the > world, so as to see in all directions at once. About six years ago, > when > we seemed to be making rapid progress toward that goal, I made the > mistake > of extrapolating, and optimistically projected full-sky coverage "by > mid-2002". Well guess what, folks -- we didn't make it! Having > stagnated > at just over 100 stations for the past two years, I figure we've pretty > much tapped out the pool of techie hobbyists -- and can't really > expect > significant growth until something changes. > I thought that "something" was the availability of commercial turn-key > systems. Apparently I was wrong. Now, I haven't a clue what that > "something" might be. But I do know it's going to be necessary to > redefine > our objective for Project Argus. Instead of full-sky coverage, perhaps > what we should be striving for is the very best science we can do with > however many stations we can get. > Although our 100+ radio telescopes are still more than exist in the > rest > of the world (combined), some of you have been saying that The SETI > League > is a failure, for falling short of our goal by a factor of fifty. > Maybe > so. For that matter, since its stated objective was to detect solid > evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence, which we have not yet done > in 42 > years of effort, I could argue that the entire SETI enterprise is a > failure. > If we believe that, we'll be snatching defeat out of the jaws of > victory. > So, where do we go from here, with few members, a handful of stations, > no > money, and a mangificent obsession? I'm open to your suggestions. > Yours for SETI success, > Paul > -------------------------------- > H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, FBIS, FRCA > Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. > 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555 > Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA > voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 > n6tx@setileague.org www.setileague.org > Project Argus station FN11LH > > "We Know We're Not Alone!" > From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 12:28:49 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5KSmVq000455; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id PAA12246 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:06:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe90.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.232]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12240; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:06:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:05:34 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.43] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: The Wow! Signal Continues to Intrigue Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:05:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C29C6F.BF4F3FA0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2002 20:05:34.0469 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABB80B50:01C29C99] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C29C6F.BF4F3FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today in Science/Astronomy: * Interstellar Signal from the 70s Continues to Puzzle Researchers http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_shostak_wow_021205.html Of the many "maybe's" that SETI has turned up in its four-decade history,= none is better known than the one that was discovered in August, 1977, i= n Columbus, Ohio. The famous Wow signal was found as part of a long-runni= ng sky survey conducted with Ohio State University's "Big Ear" radio tele= scope. ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C29C6F.BF4F3FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Today in Scien= ce/Astronomy:

* Interstellar Signal from the 70s Continues to Puzz= le Researchers

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_sho= stak_wow_021205.html

Of the many "maybe's" that SETI has turned up= in its four-decade history, none is better known than the one that was d= iscovered in August, 1977, in Columbus, Ohio. The famous Wow signal was f= ound as part of a long-running sky survey conducted with Ohio State Unive= rsity's "Big Ear" radio telescope.

------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C29C6F.BF4F3FA0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 13:25:35 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5LPYVq008982; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:25:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id QAA13343 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:10:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe70.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.212]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13339; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:10:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:09:53 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.16] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "BioAstro" Subject: SETI public: Revolutionary Theory for Origins of Life on Earth Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:09:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C29C78.BABAD450" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2002 21:09:53.0121 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7A79D10:01C29CA2] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C29C78.BABAD450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Revolutionary New Theory for Origins of Life on Earth http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=9981 ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C29C78.BABAD450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Revolutionary = New Theory for Origins of Life on Earth
 
htt= p://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3D9981

------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C29C78.BABAD450-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 13:44:41 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5LieVq003067; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id QAA13836 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:32:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13830; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:32:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from libertysurf.fr (213.36.1.145) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.026) id 3DEB4877000A1258; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:31:53 +0100 Message-ID: <3DEFC5E7.70C2B748@libertysurf.fr> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:32:24 +0100 From: Elisabeth Piotelat X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD {FREE} (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: fr,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: public@setileague.org CC: rcf@setileague.org, heather@setileague.org Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust References: <3.0.1.32.20021205091113.014be1d8@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk Hi Paul! I think that: 1) The SETI League is more than "The organization running the Argus project". 2) SETI needs people who look forward and not backward. Times are difficult for a lot of people and companies all other the world. May be would it be wise to have a kind of break. You don't go out to build an antenna when there's storm or strong wind. You can stay at home and think about the design of your antenna or writing some article for the SETI League website... If "we" didn't reach our goal in the past, we can look after reasons. To optimistic? But that would be a waste of time. May be will it be possible to connect 500 argus stations in 10 or 20 years, building a giant interferometer? Imagine we had 50000 radio-jove stations around the world with 50000 kids who claimed "I'm doing real SETI". Would it be better than just 100 stations built by people who really know what they did? When I write that the SETI League is more than "The organization running the Argus project", I think about the Array2K of course but also about our "educative" mission. I see the SETI League as a bridge between professional and media. As a volcor for France for example, I've been asked to speak about SETI@HOME. Why? Because journalists found nobody else to do that job. The Argus project is also something important. It helps to explain that SETI technics aren't so complicated. You can build a station with your computer and the help of your neighbour who is radio-ham. The Argus project also symbolise amateur enthousiasm for SETI and SETI League's activity. May be can we change the objective of the Argus project? What we will do within 5 years is not important. We want to receive a signal may be tomorrow, may be next century. So? What's the use of a global sky coverage now if nobody is sending us signals? It will just be important to be ready when "IT" comes. We can say we have the "quality"... the quantity is for later... All the best, Elisabeth http://setileague.free.fr/ From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 14:17:12 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5MHBVq032332; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id RAA14318 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:01:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe12.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.32.92]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14311; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:01:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:01:00 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.16] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "Elisabeth Piotelat" , "setipublic" Cc: , , "volcor" Subject: SETI public: Re: another vendor bites the dust Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:00:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C29C7F.DDFE37C0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2002 22:01:00.0635 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC091AB0:01C29CA9] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C29C7F.DDFE37C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beautifully well put, Elisabeth. I could not have said it better myself! I totally agree with you about the education aspects. Perhaps for a while some of the members can take off their engineering hats and put on their teacher hats. Perhaps this way we will truly learn how the public perceives us and what they want from SETI, which would no doubt help the financial end of things. I hate to use the word evangelizing, but that may be our calling for a few years, and it needs to be done more anyway. After all, we do not want to foster the trend of some scientists in =20 academia who work in a separate world from the public and are suddenly =20 shocked when funding and support vanishes because the public does not =20 understand, care, or trust what the ivory tower types are doing. Many people still think of SETI in terms of UFOs, Roswell, abductions, and the X-Files, if they think about it at all. We should perhaps contin= ue to educate the public as a group to fight such harming ignorance and to ensure those 5,000 radio telescopes some day. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Elisabeth Piotelat Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:40 PM To: public@setileague.org Cc: rcf@setileague.org; heather@setileague.org Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust Hi Paul! I think that: 1) The SETI League is more than "The organization running the Argus proje= ct". 2) SETI needs people who look forward and not backward. Times are difficult for a lot of people and companies all other the world= . May be would it be wise to have a kind of break. You don't go out to bu= ild an antenna when there's storm or strong wind. You can stay at home an= d think about the design of your antenna or writing some article for the = SETI League website... If "we" didn't reach our goal in the past, we can look after reasons. To = optimistic? But that would be a waste of time. May be will it be possible= to connect 500 argus stations in 10 or 20 years, building a giant interf= erometer? Imagine we had 50000 radio-jove stations around the world with 50000 kids= who claimed "I'm doing real SETI". Would it be better than just 100 stat= ions built by people who really know what they did? =20 When I write that the SETI League is more than "The organization running = the Argus project", I think about the Array2K of course but also about ou= r "educative" mission. =20 I see the SETI League as a bridge between professional and media. As a vo= lcor for France for example, I've been asked to speak about SETI@HOME. Wh= y? Because journalists found nobody else to do that job. The Argus projec= t is also something important. It helps to explain that SETI technics are= n't so complicated. You can build a station with your computer and the he= lp of your neighbour who is radio-ham. The Argus project also symbolise a= mateur enthousiasm for SETI and SETI League's activity. =20 May be can we change the objective of the Argus project? What we will do = within 5 years is not important. We want to receive a signal may be tomor= row, may be next century. So? What's the use of a global sky coverage now= if nobody is sending us signals? It will just be important to be ready w= hen "IT" comes. We can say we have the "quality"... the quantity is for l= ater... All the best, Elisabeth http://setileague.free.fr/ ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C29C7F.DDFE37C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Beautifu= lly well put, Elisabeth.  I could not have said it better myself!
 
I totally agree with you about the education a= spects.  Perhaps for a
while some of the members can take= off their engineering hats and
put on their teacher hats.&nbs= p; Perhaps this way we will truly learn how
the public perceiv= es us and what they want from SETI, which would
no doubt help = the financial end of things.  I hate to use the word
evan= gelizing, but that may be our calling for a few years, and it
= needs to be done more anyway.
 
After all, we = do not want to foster the trend of some scientists in
ac= ademia who work in a separate world from the public and are suddenly=
shocked when funding and support vanishes because the public= does not
understand, care, or trust what the ivory tower typ= es are doing.
 
Many people still think of SET= I in terms of UFOs, Roswell, abductions,
and the X-Files, if t= hey think about it at all.  We should perhaps continue
to= educate the public as a group to fight such harming ignorance and to
ensure those 5,000 radio telescopes some day.
 
Larry
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Elisabeth Piotelat
=
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002= 4:40 PM
To: public@setileag= ue.org
Cc: rcf@setileague.or= g; heather@setileague.org
Subjec= t: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust
 Hi Paul!

I think that:
1) The SETI League is more than "The= organization running the Argus project".
2) SETI needs people who loo= k forward and not backward.

Times are difficult for a lot of peopl= e and companies all other the world. May be would it be wise to have a ki= nd of break. You don't go out to build an antenna when there's storm or s= trong wind. You can stay at home and think about the design of your anten= na or writing some article for the SETI League website...

If "we" = didn't reach our goal in the past, we can look after reasons. To optimist= ic? But that would be a waste of time. May be will it be possible to conn= ect 500 argus stations in 10 or 20 years, building a giant interferometer= ?
Imagine we had 50000 radio-jove stations around the world with 50000= kids who claimed "I'm doing real SETI". Would it be better than just 100= stations built by people who really know what they did?

When I w= rite that the SETI League is more than "The organization running the Argu= s project", I think about the Array2K of course but also about our "educa= tive" mission.
I see the SETI League as a bridge between professional= and media. As a volcor for France for example, I've been asked to speak = about SETI@HOME. Why? Because journalists found nobody else to do that jo= b. The Argus project is also something important. It helps to explain tha= t SETI technics aren't so complicated. You can build a station with your = computer and the help of your neighbour who is radio-ham. The Argus proje= ct also symbolise amateur enthousiasm for SETI and SETI League's activity= .

May be can we change the objective of the Argus project? What w= e will do within 5 years is not important. We want to receive a signal ma= y be tomorrow, may be next century. So? What's the use of a global sky co= verage now if nobody is sending us signals? It will just be important to = be ready when "IT" comes. We can say we have the "quality"... the quantit= y is for later...

All the best,

Elisabeth
http://setilea= gue.free.fr/
------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C29C7F.DDFE37C0-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 14:44:36 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5MiZVq004511; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id RAA14861 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:30:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe46.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.18]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14857 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:30:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:29:41 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [130.132.243.35] From: "David Ocame" To: References: <200212051656.LAA09119@seti1.setileague.org> Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:29:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2002 22:29:41.0121 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD866F10:01C29CAD] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk Unfortunately, this is the case for a lot of us. Many a time I've been to the RAS Grove Enterprises webpages to drool over the systems they had. However, the costs were just a few times more than my pocket book could afford (I do note that I was not one of the ones clamoring for turnkey systems:). It's only been this past year that I've even had the land to put a dish on. Sadly, all the dishes that are supposedly being given away are not being given away in my locale! But, there has been progress here at FN31ng. The larger point here that Paul makes is even more sobering. Build it from scratch or buy it ready-made, there are just not a lot of people making the attempt to build at all. I don't wonder if it's because of the technical challenge. This just ain't that easy to do! I've begun studying RA in the hopes that if I can optimize my system to do meaningful work there, maybe I can also do SETI. Note that I say 'begun studying'. This is a lifetime journey and it's hard for others that just don't have that level of interest. Apart from the disinterested are those that just don't understand (I am actually in the subclass of understanding just how much I do not understand!). Cliff Bates has in his RA PRimer on the SARA website that all the energy from all the radio sources falling on all the antennas on all the Earth amount to the energy used by a fly to take off. I don't know how accurate this analogy is, but it does put things into perspective, for me. And yet, meaningful RA IS being done by amateurs with just a 10 ft dish! I am only just finding out about the decametric emissions from Jupiter using a simple dipole on 20 Mhz(still pondering that dish:). Where am I going with this? Maybe a redefiniton of Project Argus goals is in order. It's hard to get people to care about something more than they already do. It's impossible to make them care (my Union keeps trying to do that with me;). But, maybe we can make a shift more towards teaching those that want to learn. Maybe a series of 'mini-courses' online can be devised if there were sufficient interest (my hand shoots up as certainly interested, as long as it is without cost). One thing is certain, we do need more people building Argus stations and getting them up and running. My 2 cents worth. 73! Dave N1YVV (ok, that turned out to be way longer than I intended!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert J Fear" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust > Paul and others, > > I cannot say that I am suprised. When the members have little to no free > cash the vendors will shortly follow. > > Having lost a company late last year to Polaroid Corporation's filing > bankruptcy (owing my ex-company tens of thousands of dollars) I am now on > that list. I haven't stopped working on SETI and RA... I'm just much > slower and I hope more resourceful in doing so. > > R.J. Fear > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" > To: n6tx@setileague.org > Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:11:13 -0500 > Subject: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust > > > SETIzens, > > During the past eight years, though devoted hams and skilled > > experimenters > > have been building up SETI stations out of kits, surplus and scrounged > > materials, our numbers have grown painfully slowly. People have been > > insisting that, in order for us to approach our goal of all-sky > > coverage, > > it was necessary for commercial vendors to offer inexpensive, turn-key > > SETI > > systems. But major manufacturers (including Radio Shack) have declined > > to > > get involved in this endeavor, because they perceived that no mass > > market > > exists. Today I received additional evidence that they are right. > > Many of you will recall the Seeker 2000, a nearly-turnkey SETI > package > > (receiver, LNA, feedhorn, cables -- just add dish and stir) introduced > > by > > Radio Astronomy Supplies about three years ago. After a year of heavy > > promotion, member Jeffrey Lichtman (who runs RAS) had sold exactly ONE > > system (to our own Hardware Committee chairman, Lee Kitchens), and > > decided > > to discontinue the product line. I can't say that I can fault that > > business decision. > > Yesterday, one of our members (in Siberia, no less!) informed me > that > > the > > link from our top web-page to "Complete SETI Systems from Grove > > Enterprises" no longer worked. I emailed to Bob Grove to question its > > disappearance. This morning, he wrote to me: > > "Over the period of years that we carried the equipment and > promoted > > it on > > our web page, we never received a single order. Without a doubt on my > > part, they are probably hams for the most part who are immersed so > > deeply > > into the hobby that they don't need to buy systems; they can assemble > > whatever's required from their own resources. But we were pleased to > > try > > the experiment and lost very little money doing it. " > > Nevertheless, for a couple of years, Bob had spent both time and > money > > designing SETI packages, promoting them in his catalog and magazine > > advertisements, and devoting web server space to SETI equipment and The > > SETI League. We are grateful for his effort. But Bob is running a > > business, not a non-profit (that's my responsibility!) And he just > > can't > > stay in business promoting products for which there's no market. So, > > of > > course he made the logical decision, and pulled the plug. > > But what of all those potential SETIzens who have long said to me, > > "I'll > > build a station if someone will produce commercial equipment that I can > > set > > up without having to be (or hire) an engineer"? I conclude that they > > were > > just making excuses. If someone isn't willing to spend as much on a > > SETI > > station as families typically spend on a weekend holiday at Disneyland, > > I > > figure he or she just isn't all that interested. And since NOBODY > > seems > > willing to put his money where his mouth is, I am forced to rethink the > > goals of Project Argus. > > Chief among those goals was to accumulate 5,000 active stations > around > > the > > world, so as to see in all directions at once. About six years ago, > > when > > we seemed to be making rapid progress toward that goal, I made the > > mistake > > of extrapolating, and optimistically projected full-sky coverage "by > > mid-2002". Well guess what, folks -- we didn't make it! Having > > stagnated > > at just over 100 stations for the past two years, I figure we've pretty > > much tapped out the pool of techie hobbyists -- and can't really > > expect > > significant growth until something changes. > > I thought that "something" was the availability of commercial > turn-key > > systems. Apparently I was wrong. Now, I haven't a clue what that > > "something" might be. But I do know it's going to be necessary to > > redefine > > our objective for Project Argus. Instead of full-sky coverage, perhaps > > what we should be striving for is the very best science we can do with > > however many stations we can get. > > Although our 100+ radio telescopes are still more than exist in > the > > rest > > of the world (combined), some of you have been saying that The SETI > > League > > is a failure, for falling short of our goal by a factor of fifty. > > Maybe > > so. For that matter, since its stated objective was to detect solid > > evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence, which we have not yet done > > in 42 > > years of effort, I could argue that the entire SETI enterprise is a > > failure. > > If we believe that, we'll be snatching defeat out of the jaws of > > victory. > > So, where do we go from here, with few members, a handful of > stations, > > no > > money, and a mangificent obsession? I'm open to your suggestions. > > Yours for SETI success, > > Paul > > -------------------------------- > > H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, FBIS, FRCA > > Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. > > 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555 > > Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA > > voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 > > n6tx@setileague.org www.setileague.org > > Project Argus station FN11LH > > > > "We Know We're Not Alone!" > > > From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 15:10:19 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5NAIVq003738; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id RAA15269 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:55:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15263; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:55:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from 1cust89.tnt3.loyalsock.pa.da.uu.net ([65.238.106.89] helo=office) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18K4uC-0001o7-00; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:55:41 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20021205175429.01490e34@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: drseti@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:54:29 -0500 To: "David Ocame" From: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust In-Reply-To: References: <200212051656.LAA09119@seti1.setileague.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk At 05:29 PM 12/5/02 -0500, David Ocame wrote: >Maybe a series of 'mini-courses' online can be devised >if there were sufficient interest (my hand shoots up as certainly >interested, as long as it is without cost). No disrespect intended to you at all, David, but what you actually mean is "as long as someone else covers the costs". *Everything* costs money. It costs us close to $200,000 US a year just to keep The SETI League's office doors open. Up 'til now, about half of that sum has been contributed by one generous individual (you all know who he is). But we can't expect him to keep supporting the organization indefinitely. One of the reasons for striving for 5,000 telescopes (or some other equally unlikely large number) is that it would spread the financial burden over a wider base. Lacking a tenfold increase in dues-paying members, I will continue to spend most of my time searching for grants and outside funding, and very little of it searching for ETI. If that funding comes through, of course we'll offer mini-courses and other educational opportunities "without cost". For those who might not know the kinds of educational resources we're talking about, please see my electromagnetic spectrum tutorial on the SARA website . I could produce many more of these, if I weren't in perpetual fundraising mode! My sincere thanks to those dozen of you who have responded to my earlier dismal post, with your very solid suggestions for shifts in emphasis and survival strategies. One common thread in your suggestions seems to be expanding our educational mission. I'll certainly be bringing this up to our Board at their meeting next Monday night. (At the moment, our official mission is simply to discover ETI.) Working together, I have no doubt we'll make it through this. Yours for SETI success, Paul -------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, FBIS, FRCA Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555 Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 n6tx@setileague.org www.setileague.org Project Argus station FN11LH "We Know We're Not Alone!" From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 15:40:11 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5Ne6Vq005652; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id SAA15900 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:28:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15888; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from 1cust89.tnt3.loyalsock.pa.da.uu.net ([65.238.106.89] helo=office) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18K5PB-0006RA-00; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:27:41 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20021205182623.01496684@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: drseti@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:26:23 -0500 To: n6tx@setileague.org From: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" Subject: SETI public: Netscape Language Alert Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk SETIzens, I recently upgraded my browser to Netscape 7. I use Greek characters in the formulae that appear on many of my web pages, by addressing the extended character set through hex character codes (as recommended by, and compliant with, the World Wide Web Consortium). In reviewing my electromagnetic spectrum tutorial (mentioned in a prior email), I discovered that the Greek characters do not render properly in NS7, although they worked in NS 4, and still do in Microsoft Internet Explorer. Under Preferences/Navigator/Languages, I have selected Western ISO-8559-1 as my default character encoding, and added "Greek (el)" in the Languages for Web Pages box. Still no Greek characters. I'm open to suggestions, and still investigating. Meanwhile, if you're using NS7, and you see a lower-case letter L where a lambda should be, or a lower-case N instead of a nu, you'll know why. Cheers -- Paul -------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, FBIS, FRCA Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555 Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 n6tx@setileague.org www.setileague.org Project Argus station FN11LH "We Know We're Not Alone!" From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 17:53:51 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB61rnVq023441; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:53:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id UAA18790 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:42:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from etnhn03.eastex.net (ETNHn03.EASTEX.NET [204.96.16.145]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18786 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:42:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from floyd (unverified [198.70.165.51]) by etnhn03.eastex.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.4.232) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:42:10 -0600 Message-ID: <001101c29cc8$dc575b60$6401a8c0@floyd> From: "Floyd Petri" To: "SETI Public" Subject: SETI public: Another vender bites the dust Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:43:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk Loosing these venders is quite a blow to me. I am just now getting my land set for use, obtained a 10 foot dish, a pole for the dish and and cable. I was just getting ready to actually set the dish up. Now where am I going to get the LNA, Horn and other stuff? I don't have the expertise to build any of it myself. Floyd Petri From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 17:59:25 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB61xOVq004656; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id UAA18898 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:46:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18883; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:46:23 -0500 (EST) From: robbins49@comcast.net Received: from p3700 (pcp914015pcs.brndml01.va.comcast.net [68.57.95.147]) by mtaout07.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with SMTP id <0H6O007CBCVU8G@mtaout07.icomcast.net>; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:45:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:45:30 -0500 Subject: SETI public: Saving Seti To: public@setileague.org, Argus Setileague , volcor@setileague.org Message-id: <005e01c29cc9$289e0780$6601a8c0@brndml01.va.comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_o4Pf2m/KdOwFmMzOfp8LFA)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_o4Pf2m/KdOwFmMzOfp8LFA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Evening all, One thing I came across on the Seti Institute's web site was a list of companys that will match employee contributions to non-profit organizations. If anyone happens to work for one of the companys listed, it may bring a few bucks our way. And its free to check !! :-) ------------------------------------- Allan Robbins Project Argus Station FM17dk "Until they come to see us from their planet, I wait patiently. I hear them saying: Don't call us, we'll call you." (Marlene Dietrich) --Boundary_(ID_o4Pf2m/KdOwFmMzOfp8LFA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Evening all,
 
One thing I came across on the Seti = Institute's web=20 site was a list of companys that will match employee contributions to = non-profit=20 organizations.  If anyone happens to work for one of the companys=20 listed, it may bring a few bucks our way.  And its free = to check=20 !! :-)
 
-------------------------------------
Allan=20 Robbins
Project Argus Station FM17dk
 
=93Until they come to see us from their = planet, I=20 wait patiently.
I hear them saying: Don=92t call us, we=92ll call=20 you.=94
(Marlene Dietrich)
 
 
--Boundary_(ID_o4Pf2m/KdOwFmMzOfp8LFA)-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 18:29:39 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB62TYVq030250; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id VAA19611 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:18:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19607 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:18:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from 1cust128.tnt3.loyalsock.pa.da.uu.net ([65.238.106.128] helo=office) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18K84L-00043q-00; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:18:21 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20021205211803.014da2f4@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: drseti@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 21:18:03 -0500 To: "Floyd Petri" , "SETI Public" From: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" Subject: Re: SETI public: Another vender bites the dust In-Reply-To: <001101c29cc8$dc575b60$6401a8c0@floyd> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk At 07:43 PM 12/5/02 -0600, Floyd Petri wrote: >Now where am I going to >get the LNA, Horn and other stuff? All the pieces are still available, Floyd. What's missing is the turnkey package. As it stands now, you have to buy a receiver from one source, an LNA from a second, and a feedhorn from a third company. What Grove had tried to do (unsccessfully, it seems) was make it possible for you to order everything from one source. Keep an eye on The SETI League website; the sources are still listed under Hardware Corner. -------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, FBIS, FRCA Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555 Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 n6tx@setileague.org www.setileague.org Project Argus station FN11LH "We Know We're Not Alone!" From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 18:46:57 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB62ktVq002358; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id VAA20042 for public-list; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:36:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20038 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:36:07 -0500 (EST) From: MarcusJohn@aol.com Received: from MarcusJohn@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id z.a8.15fca7d9 (4254) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:35:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:35:31 EST Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust To: public@setileague.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a8.15fca7d9.2b2166f3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk --part1_a8.15fca7d9.2b2166f3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must echo Elizabeth and some of the other people here. The Seti League is much more than a single project. It is a philosophical place for like minded, intelligent, scientific people to get together and discuss what we need to do to carry on. We need to be there as a counterpoint to the professionals who have the means to penetrate very deeply into space with expensive and well connected equiptment. We need to be here to brainstorm up more efficient ideas. I believe that the Seti League has been a very positive influence on Seti Science, such as on the Array 2K. Although the pace of intellectual discourse has slowed in recent years, probably since about the time of the EQ peg hoax, I believe we can get it back. I think that Pauls provocative post is a good start at lighting the fire. We have had many stimulating discussions on this and related forums. Lets get this going again. I think that it is a virtual certainty that if we get some real good hits, like the Wow signal, then the League will grow like wildfire. The only way we can try to see the Wow signals, is if we look. We know it was there once. Why cannot it be there again? Let us not give up. At the same time, we may not get the Wow back in our generation, but we should try. At the same time, let us think of newer and possibly more productive strategies, like the optical search. This is very exciting. Even if Argus stops, somebody needs to champion the optical search. So what if Argus is not 5000 strong. We still have a place in the system. Paul will be all over the media when the Wow hits again. That is guaranteed. John. --part1_a8.15fca7d9.2b2166f3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must echo Elizabeth and some of the other people here. The Seti League is much more than a single project. It is a philosophical place for like minded, intelligent, scientific people to get together and discuss what we need to do to carry on. We need to be there as a counterpoint to the professionals who have the means to penetrate very deeply into space with expensive and well connected equiptment. We need to be here to brainstorm up more efficient ideas.

I believe that the Seti League has been a very positive influence on Seti Science, such as on the Array 2K.

Although the pace of intellectual discourse has slowed in recent years, probably since about the time of the EQ peg hoax, I believe we can get it back. I think that Pauls provocative post is a good start at lighting the fire.

We have had many stimulating discussions on this and related forums. Lets get this going again.

I think that it is a virtual certainty that if we get some real good hits, like the Wow signal, then the League will grow like wildfire. The only way we can try to see the Wow signals, is if we look. We know it was there once. Why cannot it be there again? Let us not give up. At the same time, we may not get the Wow back in our generation, but we should try.

At the same time, let us think of newer and possibly more productive strategies, like the optical search. This is very exciting. Even if Argus stops, somebody needs to champion the optical search.

So what if Argus is not 5000 strong. We still have a place in the system. Paul will be all over the media when the Wow hits again. That is guaranteed.

John. --part1_a8.15fca7d9.2b2166f3_boundary-- From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 21:53:41 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB65rdVq008420; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id AAA23704 for public-list; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:42:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from irk.ru (ccsoan.irkutsk.su [195.206.40.177]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23696 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:42:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [195.206.41.164] (41-164.ppp.dsi.ru [195.206.41.164] (may be forged)) by irk.ru (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB65gFK9013200 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:42:17 +0800 (IRKT) X-Sender: apricot@pop.proxy.dsi.ru Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:31:12 +0800 To: public@setileague.org From: OJ Lougheed Subject: SETI public: Dreams Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk SETIzens, Things found on your website: "If your dream is big enough you will search for solutions to your problems. While doing this you will learn a lot about yourself and nature and sometimes accomplish your dream." - Ron Blue and Woody Lakey, "Searching for Habitable Planets" http://www.setileague.org/articles/lightnin.htm "There are limits, however, to how much new material any individual and any generation can assimilate. These limits to new perspectives are seen throughout the history of science, insofar as the scientists most open to revolutionary ways of viewing the universe have tended to be younger people, for whom the traditional view is not as deeply entrenched. "...as I look back on our history as a species and as a civilization, it seems that one central characteristic of being human is to attempt to understand ourselves and our world around us. To me, this is one of the core values that motivates SETI. And I would hope that we would not shrink back from that goal, and that we would not avoid a few growing pains as we attempt to understand better our place in the universe." - Douglas A. Vakoch, "What Shall We Tell the World?" http://www.setileague.org/editor/whattell.htm Hello All, As a recent resubscriber to the list and given the very recent discussion, I thought at the very least I should introduce myself and toss in my 2 kopeks worth. When I was younger, I climbed mountains and walked long distances in the wilderness often alone. Sometimes without seeing another human for as much as a week, the animals and the stars keeping me company. My best laid plans were often foiled when I came up to a 6 meter (20 foot) wide crevasse or 12 meter (40 foot) high embankment... hmmm... checking the topo I discovered that the relief was 50 feet! Oh well, have to go around... My goal didn't change, the route did. Plans are just plans. Better people than I have said much more about this. I dropped from the listserve last April after being on for only a few months, as my sixth season at "Dacha" began. There are no telephones in the Siberia village once built for workers of the (then) secret aircraft factory. The season growing and selling fruit trees was again successful, with enough money to make it through another winter. And we eat what we grew almost everyday. This while living back in Irkutsk in a ninth-floor Soviet apartment - one of 1,350 vault-like multi-room cells - in a hilltop complex known as "The Wall," where once stood a beautiful Pine forest. With a telephone that works more often than not, I'm back grazing the net! Why Siberia? 2 reasons mostly: 1) I like to walk and there are no fences here. I now have no jeans with rips from barbed wire! And Baikal is beautiful. Not to mention the mountains, being not so large as before, just right for an ageing climber. 2) Ghandiji thought that villages were the future of India (if not the world), and I agree. Since I have been intrigued by Russia for more than half of my 54 years, I'm here. There are few if any "villages" in the U.S. Modern industrial cities are horrible, a blight on the planet, and soon to be history! For those wishing to learn more about "industrial denial" (and the part we all play in it) just spend a few hours browsing http://www.dieoff.com I don't think this is another conspiracy theory. I've been involved with Future Studies and Renewable Energy Technologies (and Organic Farming) for 30 years. Just as important as the search for ET. And a steady supply of electricity seems to be needed for that too! The bottom line is that it takes energy to make energy available! "Net Energy." (To pump, mine, refine, transport, sell, and use.) When (soon) it takes the energy from more than one barrel of oil to just pump one barrel of oil... a LOT of "oil reserves" will stay in the ground until there are enough windmills (which also take energy to make, transport and install) are available to pump the oil again - if ever. Even DEP (Digital Energy Processing) will not solve the problem! ;-) The key, as always, is "learning" and it's allied activity - "education!" ("Education is a little like learning, except that it takes longer.") Why should SETI be in a different boat? Or tied into a different web? Or be outside the laws of thermodynamics?... Everyone really needs to read Margaret Mead's little book "Culture and Commitment." It may tell us as much about ET (maybe more like Samoa Islanders) as it does about ourselves! With my Autumn browsing I discovered (among other things): "CAMBRIDGE, MA, May 16, 2002 – Sixty-five foremost educators and scientists today issued a report calling for a "revolution" in Earth science education in the nation's K-12 schools. The report, "Blueprint for Change: Report from the National Conference on the Revolution in Earth and Space Science Education," strongly recommends that every student be educated in Earth and space science and that schools elevate the field to the same pedagogical status in classrooms as biology, chemistry and physics." But in a search of the http://www.earthscirevolution.org site, the words "amateur, radio, astronomy" were not found. >From http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/intro/why.html : "Finally, astronomy performs an important educational service for our nation. As an exciting, visual science easily accessible to amateur observers, astronomy stirs scientific curiosity in thousands of young people every year. These young people soon learn that astronomy involves nearly the whole range of the physical sciences, including mathematics, physics, chemistry, geology, engineering and computer science. Why do I get the feeling that U.S. Astronomers (and Hams), like their Soviet counterparts who still live in holes in the ground, may be doing the same thing? Even with all the magazines - Sky and Telescope, QST, etc - and the WEBSITES, why is so little happening? Or? Why are so few listening??? Why is Amateur Radio dying? Why did the number of Electronic Engineering grads in the States (Russia too) drop by 50% from 1990 to 2000? While the number of "Recreation majors" doubled? Many reasons of course. And some of them are affecting the goals of SETI and the 5000 needed Argus stations! The recent worldwide economic criminal and terrorist activities also playing a role, as others on this list have pointed out. So, without thinking half as deep as the above, I wrote Paul Shuch a message (one of many we have exchanged over the last week of so) proposing a "Young SETI League" program. Like any other "disease" - learning, or a new idea - begins with the infection. "A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove....... but the world may be different because I was important in the life of a child." If you have never watched the movie E.T. with a group of kids. Do it! MANAGE it! DO IT! Watch the kids. And then show them your SETIscope, Ham shack, or the Time Machine (made out of an old VW bug because you couldn't afford the DeLorean) you are working on in your garage! My suggestion was that we (yes of course the frog in someone elses pocket, as Paul pointed out) come up with a low-cost "entry level" RA set-up - not powerful enough perhaps to find ET (while at home anyway) - but good enough to listen for the radio frequency interference (or ETRFI) that is beginning to plague SETIzens. Involve schools, young geeks (girl geeks too!), reach out... MORE! (No pain, no gain!) These young "SETI Scouts" can then help to find and indentify the 20 foot wide "crevasses," and 40 foot high "embankments" that don't show on the "topos," while learning the most important lesson of all - How to SEARCH! How to inquire and solve problems. How to reach ones goals! All critically important for the time when you finally get that BIG dish, the gold plated Miracle No Noise Preamp, or the quiet retirement place in the country, to continue the adventure. Or for those more mundane, the no less important activities in life... living itself. The more we learn about ourselves, the more we will REALLY have to share... someday... when the call comes... "While doing this you will learn a lot about yourself and nature and sometimes accomplish your dream." Thanks to all who share growing pains, de OJ, ex-N5JXU "One can never consent to creep when one feels the need to soar." -- Hellen Keller Overend J. (O.J.) Lougheed, Founder, NerpaNet Baikal Village Network http://www.nerpa.net personal page: http://www.nerpa.net/en/friends/Lougheed Please send no Word or other M$ files... the phonelines are slow, the satellite modem even more so, and it's EXPENSIVE... and we mostly use Macs... From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 23:28:25 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB67SOVq003919; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id CAA25534 for public-list; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:16:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from djwhome.demon.co.uk (root@djwhome.demon.co.uk [158.152.19.5]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25530 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:16:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from david@localhost) by djwhome.demon.co.uk (8.11.4/8.11.4) id gB67Ggp02805 for public@setileague.org; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:16:42 GMT From: David Woolley Message-Id: <200212060716.gB67Ggp02805@djwhome.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: SETI public: Netscape Language Alert To: public@setileague.org Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:16:42 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20021205182623.01496684@mail.earthlink.net> from "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" at Dec 05, 2002 06:26:23 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk > I recently upgraded my browser to Netscape 7. I use Greek characters in > the formulae that appear on many of my web pages, by addressing the Could you give an example URL, as I couldn't find one quickly. > Under Preferences/Navigator/Languages, I have selected Western ISO-8559-1 > as my default character encoding, and added "Greek (el)" in the Languages > for Web Pages box. Still no Greek characters. I'm open to suggestions, Neither of these should have any effect, as, if you are using numeric entities correctly, the default character set characters have already been converted to Unicode at that point, and the language is just sent to the web site to allow it to select an appropriate version of the page. > and still investigating. Meanwhile, if you're using NS7, and you see a > lower-case letter L where a lambda should be, or a lower-case N instead of > a nu, you'll know why. That will happen if you use the Symbol font hack. A valid Greek lambda would be λ and a valid nu would be ν From owner-public@setileague.org Thu Dec 5 23:36:54 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB67arVq019833; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id CAA25778 for public-list; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:23:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from chi6-1.relay.mail.uu.net (chi6-1.relay.mail.uu.net [199.171.54.98]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25768 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from djwhome.demon.co.uk by chi6sosrv13.alter.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: djwhome.demon.co.uk [158.152.19.5]) id QQnsan10539 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:23:41 GMT Received: (from david@localhost) by djwhome.demon.co.uk (8.11.4/8.11.4) id gB67McX02832 for public@setileague.org; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:22:38 GMT From: David Woolley Message-Id: <200212060722.gB67McX02832@djwhome.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust To: public@setileague.org Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:22:38 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <3DEFC5E7.70C2B748@libertysurf.fr> from "Elisabeth Piotelat" at Dec 05, 2002 10:32:24 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk > If "we" didn't reach our goal in the past, we can look after * reasons. To optimistic? But that would be a waste of time. May be will * it be possible to connect 500 argus stations in 10 or 20 years, building * a giant interferometer? The problem with this is obtaining sub-nanosecond time transfer accuracies (with added complications due to land tides and atmospheric variations). From owner-public@setileague.org Fri Dec 6 00:34:22 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB68YKVq027576; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id DAA26846 for public-list; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:20:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from etnhn03.eastex.net (ETNHn03.EASTEX.NET [204.96.16.145]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26842 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from floyd (unverified [198.70.165.51]) by etnhn03.eastex.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.4.232) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:20:07 -0600 Message-ID: <00fc01c29d00$73efee60$6401a8c0@floyd> From: "Floyd Petri" To: "SETI Public" Subject: SETI public: Some discussion that will upset some Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:21:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk I am in the process of building my own SETI Amateur Radio Telescope which I feel will make me part of the cover up. My personal self thinks that aliens are already here and have been for a very long time. By ignoring this and building a SETI station that at best might detect a signal sent a very long time ago makes me feel like a hypocrite. My professional self is retired and knows that aliens are already here. The difference being that I can't admit, talk or discuss anything that I obtained "Officially", but I can and may discuss anything that I saw, heard or participated in that developed outside of being say we say "under the color of law". Yes I feel like a hypocrite, but I do what I am doing because I enjoy it. In the 1980's I modulated a laser with an audio and video invitation with a set of coordinates and had "real time results" instead of waiting for a radio signal that may be thousands of years old and may never come.. I believe that SETI must continue to do what it does the way it does it because until undeniable outside results of alien life is obtained and publicized and proven true before the government will ever officially admit to what they know not only about Roswell, but what has happened since Roswell including the salting of private industries with alien technology so that they can "invent" the technology and put it in the main stream of things. Knowing this just makes the success of SETI that much more necessary and important to me. I have been with SETI@home for some time now until I can get my own station going. Once this is done I will be looking around for some sort of membership in some organization. I think there are a few out there that may want me when I get my station going. SETI Public is a good place to start and I appreciate the opportunity to participate. Floyd Petri From owner-public@setileague.org Fri Dec 6 01:57:25 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB69vIVq026292; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id EAA28371 for public-list; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:33:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28367 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:33:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from tiscali.fr (192.168.10.7) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.026) id 3DDCB4A10012BE6C for public@setileague.org; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:32:27 +0100 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:32:27 +0100 Message-Id: Subject: SETI public: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_SETI_public:_another_vendor_bites_the_dust?= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Elisabeth_Piotelat?=" To: "=?utf-8?Q?public?=" X-XaM3-API-Version: 3.2 (B33 pl6) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 129.175.152.136 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by seti1.setileague.org id EAA28368 Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk > > If "we" didn't reach our goal in the past, we can look after > * reasons. To optimistic? But that would be a waste of time. May be will > * it be possible to connect 500 argus stations in 10 or 20 years, building > * a giant interferometer? > > The problem with this is obtaining sub-nanosecond time transfer accuracies > (with added complications due to land tides and atmospheric variations). Of course! I don't know if someone really made a study about the SETI@HOME users motivation. For most of them, it's not SETI. It can be the fact to do "something together" or at the opposite "to be at the best place in the charts and show to the world that my PC is the best". Didn't we have discussion about Argus@home? If we want that families spent their week-ends (and money) with SETI occupation, we have to bring them something to do. Dream is something important. For that we have science-fiction but we can't produce a film like "Contact" every yeay :-( So we must have some utopist vision of Argus. I once had a discussion with a teacher who wanted to build an Argus station for his college where he saw that less and less people choose to study science. The problem is that: 1) He wanted a kit 2) He knew nothing about astronomy and didn't want to teach astronomy (children won't go at school at night to see stars). 3) He didn't spoke a word of english May be shall we introduce labels for Argus stations, starting with an argus station level 0 which could represent the equivalent of SETI@HOME (screensaver? simulation game about SETI?), a level1 would be a small telescope, a level2 a radio ham station, etc, etc... till the equivalent of an "Array2K" station? Elisabeth ------------- SPECIAL ADSL L'ADSL Tiscali est à partir de 15,95 EUR/mois ! Plus modem ADSL et frais d'activation gratuits ! Pour profiter de cette offre, cliquez ici: http://register.tiscali.fr/adsl/ Offre soumise à conditions. From owner-public@setileague.org Fri Dec 6 04:42:39 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB6CgcVq018985; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id HAA01636 for public-list; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:15:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe99.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.241]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01631; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:15:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:15:18 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.26] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "setipublic" Cc: "volcor" , "Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley" Subject: SETI public: Time for more Optical SETI in the SETI League Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:15:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C29CF7.35621230" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2002 12:15:18.0835 (UTC) FILETIME=[244DB830:01C29D21] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C29CF7.35621230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" One area I thought The SETI League was going in was OPTICAL SETI. Perhaps it would not be much cheaper than radio, but it would likely attract more people into the League and SETI field in general, since far more astronomers have optical telescopes than radio. I also am inclined to think that an advanced ETI would be using something more sophisticated for communication than radio. The SETI League Optical SETI Chairman Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley maintains an excellent Web site that includes building your own Optical SETI Observatory. I know this is largely a ham group, but maybe it's time to get with the times and start improving the Optical SETI portion of the League. Groups and companies that do not branch out often find themselves left in the dust. Relevant Web sites: http://www.coseti.org http://www.setileague.org/articles/spie2001.htm http://www.setileague.org/admin/kingsley.htm Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Floyd Petri Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:50 PM To: SETI Public Subject: SETI public: Another vender bites the dust Loosing these venders is quite a blow to me. I am just now getting my land set for use, obtained a 10 foot dish, a pole for the dish and and cable. I was just getting ready to actually set the dish up. Now where am I going to get the LNA, Horn and other stuff? I don't have the expertise to build any of it myself. Floyd Petri ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C29CF7.35621230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One area I tho= ught The SETI League was going in was
OPTICAL SETI.  Perh= aps it would not be much cheaper
than radio, but it would like= ly attract more people into
the League and SETI field in gener= al, since far more
astronomers have optical telescopes than ra= dio.  I also
am inclined to think that an advanced ETI wo= uld be using
something more sophisticated for communication t= han radio.
 
The SETI League Optical SETI Chai= rman Dr. Stuart A.
Kingsley maintains an excellent Web site th= at includes
building your own Optical SETI Observatory.  =
 
I know this is largely a ham group, but may= be it's time
to get with the times and start improving the Opt= ical
SETI portion of the League.  Groups and companies
that do not branch out often find themselves left in
= the dust.
 
Relevant Web sites:
&nb= sp;
 
http://www.setileague.org/articles/spie2001.htm
 
&nb= sp;
 
Larry
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Floyd Petri
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:50 PM=
To: SETI Public
Subject: SETI public: Another vender bi= tes the dust
 
Loosing these venders is quite a blow= to me. I am just now getting my land
set for use, obtained a 10 foot = dish, a pole for the dish and and cable. I
was just getting ready to a= ctually set the dish up. Now where am I going to
get the LNA, Horn and= other stuff? I don't have the expertise to build any
of it myself.
Floyd Petri
------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C29CF7.35621230-- From owner-public@setileague.org Fri Dec 6 04:53:54 2002 Received: from seti1.setileague.org ([204.176.91.10]) by Sentry.net (8.12.2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB6CrpVq008804; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) id HAA02277 for public-list; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:41:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: seti1.setileague.org: majordom set sender to owner-public@seti1.setileague.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (oe37.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.32.117]) by seti1.setileague.org (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02262; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:41:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:41:05 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.149.164.26] From: "LARRY KLAES" To: "Dr. H. Paul Shuch" , "David Ocame" Cc: "setipublic" , "volcor" Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:40:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C29CFA.CEF33E80" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2002 12:41:05.0452 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE28BEC0:01C29D24] Sender: owner-public@setileague.org Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C29CFA.CEF33E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I was under the impression that education on SETI topics was right up there on the list with searching for ETI? I hope the Board members won't even need to be asked more than once on the importance of this topic. What changed, or did it not exist and I was just wishful thinking? I also echo the comments that it is nice to see people actually communicating on the lists again. I kept wondering if I was the only one out there. :^) Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. H. Paul Shuch Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:06 PM To: David Ocame Subject: Re: SETI public: another vendor bites the dust At 05:29 PM 12/5/02 -0500, David Ocame wrote: >Maybe a series of 'mini-courses' online can be devised >if there were sufficient interest (my hand shoots up as certainly >interested, as long as it is without cost). No disrespect intended to you at all, David, but what you actually mean is "as long as someone else covers the costs". *Everything* costs money. It costs us close to $200,000 US a year just to keep The SETI League's office doors open. Up 'til now, about half of that sum has been contributed by one generous individual (you all know who he is). But we can't expect him to keep supporting the organization indefinitely. One of the reasons for striving for 5,000 telescopes (or some other equally unlikely large number) is that it would spread the financial burden over a wider base. Lacking a tenfold increase in dues-paying members, I will continue to spend most of my time searching for grants and outside funding, and very little of it searching for ETI. If that funding comes through, of course we'll offer mini-courses and other educational opportunities "without cost". For those who might not know the kinds of educational resources we're talking about, please see my electromagnetic spectrum tutorial on the SARA website . I could produce many more of these, if I weren't in perpetual fundraising mode! My sincere thanks to those dozen of you who have responded to my earlier dismal post, with your very solid suggestions for shifts in emphasis and survival strategies. One common thread in your suggestions seems to be expanding our educational mission. I'll certainly be bringing this up to our Board at their meeting next Monday night. (At the moment, our official mission is simply to discover ETI.) Working together, I have no doubt we'll make it through this. Yours for SETI success, Paul -------------------------------- H. Paul Sh