Tr: Tr: SETI Re: non-communication between different levels of intellig


Elisabeth Piotelat (piotelat@in2p3.fr)
Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:21:31 +0200


Here is an answer from Chadoko... >-----Message d'origine----- >De : Richard Burke-Ward <richard@burke-ward.demon.co.uk> > : SETI List <seti@sni.net> >Date : vendredi 4 juin 1999 10:32 >Objet : SETI Re: non-communication between different levels of intellig > > >>Ron wrote: >> >>>We have a French friend interested in our topic. My French is very poor. >>>The article looks high level and good, any translators agree? Hi, The writer is not French but Swiss. >>In the meantime, it seems to me to be applying information theory to >>langauge, and asking whether ETI communication might have a similar >>fundamental structure to our own communication systems - i.e., >>particulate and linear. This is correct. My French is not good, and I don't have access to >>a dictionary, but a very rough translation of the conclusion would read: >> >>"In my opinion the Cosmos is brimming with life, all on different >>evolutionary levels. In the scheme of cosmic life, ETI's who have >>succeeded in conquering their genetic and physical heritage are probably >>the ones who participate in intelligent interstellar communication. >>Lesser levels of intelligence, such as human intelligence, are very >>likely outside the the communication sphere of these ETI's. There is a >>kind of cosmic apartheid between advanced ETI's and more primitive >>species. If ETI visited Earth, it seems reasonable and highly probable to >>me that their method of communicating would be far beyond our own... >>[Gets a bit garbled here - one obscure phrase] ...there will not be a >>communication problem with people like us, simply because there is >>nothing to communicate. This is what we should expect." >> >>But in between, there is a lot of talk about linear versus non-linear >>communication, which is quite a hot topic. >> >>This is my own gloss to the article. Reading between the lines, I would >>suggest that the author is saying that evolution may produce linear >>communication systems (it's a lot easier to add one grunt to another than >>it is to produce, say, a fully-formed holographic system). But for truly >>advanced species, evolution is no longer the driving force behind their >>communication system any more than it drives their hpysiology or >>genetics. They are capable of reinventing themselves, and language is >>part of the deal. Correct. So an advanced species (and that's what we're all >>looking for) *may* have developed novel, non-linear, perhaps holographic >>or fractal, methods of communicating. These may be completely impossible >>for us to understand. Correct. Moreover we,already,possess the embryo of this language:dreams. we have the ability to learn,internally,to use this non-sequential type of language by manipulating very complex visualisations in 4 d,which I learned within a period of 20 years. This discovery showed me that this type of non-linear analytical way of thinking is much more efficient than our usual linear analytical thinking. For example,some months ago,I started to think about the structure of the Vacuum,an increasingly hot topic. Starting from nil,it took me 6 months to get the hypothesis of the crystalline vacuum,an hypothesis I found which was discovered by Dr David Ritz Finkelstein in a whole life! Can you see the enormous gain of time? I am still studying this topic and came along on physicists who propose something better than this crystalline theory,mainly that Spacetime is an ocean of aether with localised standing waves which are "particles". Analysing this with the 4 d method of non-linear analysis I developped from dream studies,I can say that these physicists are on the right track. Moreover,this way of analysing reality gives you an enormous power or ordering facts in a chaos. For example,present-day physics is,in fact,a chaos but this is not visible with a linear language. It becomes crystal clear only when you can see all this in 4 d in your mind. What I want to say with this is that we all have the potentiality of learning this 4 d inner analytical language,like chimps have the potentiality to learn using symbols. The study of dreams made me discover this and then I applied it to research and it opened me fantastic horizons. However,all this cannot be transmitted to other persons because we do not have transceivers in our brain to transmit such highly complex non-linear information. >From studying and learning this language I quickly realised that this is the next step in our evolution and that it is highly propable that advanced ETI use such a rational language. So there is no way to communicate with them. We are not equipped for that. But,perhaps,if they wanted,they could transmit within our brains such non-linear infos with highly advanced electromagnetic devices. Such things would be perceived by the recipients as "visions",like the visions of the prophets,schizophrenics,or "geniuses". >>He (she?) is right. Think of what communication system an intelligent >>machine might use. Or a system geared to 'brain-boxes' which allow brain >>(or sludge-nodes or whatever) to brain contact without the clumsiness of >>a transmitted language... different coding systems entirely. And with no >>linear logic to follow and attempt at decoding would have to process >>entire signals as gestalt entities. Frankly, this is not something we are >>up to. We are not apt at transmitting non-linear infos because we have no internal transceiver. HOWEVER,we can learn,internally,to develop and use this language and I assure you it is just beauty. You are just inside your mind system and using it at its maximal performances. Of course,you cannot transmit all this to others! This is a beautiful holographic language. For a lay person introduced to this inner language he would find himself like in front of a tapestry of dreams. But these are not dreams! They are highly complex non-linear computations. >>So we may never get further than detecting a carrier signal. Or standing >>face-to-tentacle and wondering what's going on in there... Correct. Cordially yours, Claude Note: Below is an article I read,linearly,yesterday. Arrows indicate things which I can understand and structure,immediately,with the non-linear method of analysis I derived from my dream studies. However,I cannot explain how I elaborate on this,because I have no transmitter of non-linear infos and you have no receivers of non-linear infos! Dissociated Pattern of Activity in Visual Cortices and Their Projections During Human Rapid Eye Movement Sleep Allen R. Braun, * Thomas J. Balkin, Nancy J. Wesensten, Fuad Gwadry, Richard E. Carson, Mary Varga, Paul Baldwin, Gregory Belenky, Peter Herscovitch Positron emission tomography was used to measure cerebral activity and to evaluate regional interrelationships within visual cortices and their projections during rapid eye movement (REM) sleep in human subjects. Dream sleep was associated with selective activation of extrastriate visual cortices, particularly within the ventral processing stream, and an<-----endoreel non Moi unexpected attenuation of activity in the primary visual cortex;<------donc region du "Moi" Ce n'est pas "inattendu",c'est tout a fait logique mais l'auteur ne s'en rend pas compte. increases in regional cerebral blood flow in extrastriate areas were significantly correlated with decreases in the striate cortex. Extrastriate activity was also associated with concomitant activation of limbic and paralimbic regions, but with----> a marked reduction of activity in frontal association<-------DRP. Logique! areas including lateral orbital and dorsolateral prefrontal cortices. Ah.Voila! Ce que j'ai trouve par le raisonnement! C'est l'INVERSE des cogitatiogenes... This pattern suggests a model for brain mechanisms subserving Dream sleep where visual association cortices and their paralimbic projections may operate as a closed system dissociated from the regions at either end of the visual hierarchy that mediate interactions with the external world. A. R. Braun, F. Gwadry, M. Varga, Language Section, Voice Speech and Language Branch, National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD, USA. T. J. Balkin, N. J. Wesensten, G. Belenky, Department of Neurobiology and Behavior, Division of Neuropsychiatry, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, Washington, DC, USA. R. E. Carson, P. Baldwin, P. Herscovitch, PET Imaging Section, Clinical Center, Building 10, Room 1C401, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892, USA. * To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: abraun@pop.nidcd.nih.gov SCIENCE Volume 279, Number 5347 Issue of 2 January 1998, pp. 91 - 95



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