archiv~1: Re: SETI Arecibo message to m13

Re: SETI Arecibo message to m13

Alfred A. Aburto Jr. ( (no email) )
Tue, 03 Nov 1998 20:28:30 -0800

Hi Jerry,

Its all rather curious. There really ought to be super
civilizations out there (and by that I mean vast users
of energy) and they would be easily detectable by us
right now. But instead, nothing, not the slightest hint
of super civilizations.

Think of ourselves moving ahead down the technology road.
It really won't be that long before we have a colony on
the Moon and Mars. It really won't be long until we occupy
the entire Solar System (a thousand years?). By that time
we as a civilization will be vast users of energy. We would
be easily noticed elsewhere (outside the Solar System)
communicating across the Solar System using terrawatts or
more of power (we use kilowatts to megawatts to communicate
around the Earth today but 1000 years from now when the whole
Solar System is our base it will be gigawatts and terrawatts).
These signals would be easily detectable over great distance
by modest instruments. Yet, we see nothing. What are we
missing?

I work as an engineer. I'm used to describing the world with
statistics. There are mean values of course but there is
always some variance around the mean. This is the way of the
world and the universe. It just does not make sense that we
are the only ones in the Galaxy or the Universe. There are
others out there.

I suppose there could be a 'gap' but there ought to be other
civilizations in transition that we would detect.

If other civilizations (technological) develop as we will then
they will find it very hard to hide whole worlds, whole Solar
Systems, whole Galaxies! I don't think we can turn ourselves
off that easily. As we grow and expand we WILL consume and
use MORE energy. A fact of life I'd say. That energy would be
detectable. We can't really hide. So what is going on? What
clue(s) are we missing? Is 'intelligence' or 'technology'
doomed to fail?

This question of 'where are they' (the super to ultra advanced
civilizations and vast users of energy) question sure does
raise my curiosity ...

Someday we'll know exactly of course. We just got to keep
moving ahead and see what we find ...

Al Aburto

> jerry and judy wrote:
>
> >Hello Nico,
> >
> >I think the distance to M13 was known fairly accurately
> >by Drake when he transmitted from Arecibo. The coded
> >message was a little under 3 minutes long and it will
> >take 24,000 years or so to reach M13 ...
> >
>
> <snipped>
>
> >You know what bothers me most? It is the super civilizations.
> >Civilizations who are vast users of power (thousands to
> >possibly billions of years ahead of us). Where are they?
> >They should be easily detectable!! But there is no sign of
> >them. Not the slightest clue or hint has popped up after
> >many years of optical and radio observations of our Galaxy
> >(observations actually throughout the electromagnetic
> >spectrum)! Nothing, except perhaps the Universe itself, to
> >make us suspicious that there is any one else out there.
> >Perhaps there is really no one else out there, or perhaps
> >we have big and profound things to learn in the future ...
> >
> >Al Aburto
> >
>
> It would seem possible that they don't communicate or even use energy in
> the ways that we would expect, anymore than we communicate or 'use' energy
> in as limited a way as the next level down of social predators on Earth
> (wolves, lions and hyenas etc.) do. These terrestrial groups developed
> their 'systems' 5 to 10 million years ago and this may turn out to be the
> developmental gap between us and ETIs. We might also assume that these
> ETIs realize that it's prudent to keep a low profile, because they have
> discovered, or simply deduced, that it's downright silly to make their
> activities known to any potential 'superiors', and so on up the levels of
> ETIs to the billions of year old entities.
>
> Can *we* learn anything from this view of galactic hierarchies? or are we
> too arrogant (having been at the top of the food chain here for so long (so
> long, that's a laugh!)?
>
> For thirty years, it has seemed odd to me that, since we have known for
> almost a century now how young and puny we are as a galactic civilization,
> that we would assume that two-way communication was a desired, or even a
> safe goal!, for us any time within the next millennia.
>
> Do we have a plan on how we're going to hide, if we ever do intercept an
> energy signal from an ETI? It's irresponsible not to think of our
> (probably) distant descendents, they will be the ones who will have to try
> to deal with the ramifications of our actions.
>
> Wolves and hyenas know enough to *avoid* and hide...
>
> Jerry